Spring Over Axle

[CliftonRover]

I am plannign on building a spring over axel 88" on 88range rover axels. I will use a 2.25L with a cam, malory electronic ignition, and a weber 2 barrel, late IIA tranny with an early T-case to get the lower low range to compensate for the 3.54 diffs. I will use heavy duty 88 parabolics, and some lone travel shock setup. I am also planning to use revolver shackles front and rear. I am aware this will create the need for hi angle driveshafts. Has anyone done this, or heard about important parts of the project. I am doing it to get approx. 5" of lift. I will be running stock three spoke alloys, the wider track should make the lift move stable.

[KingSlug]

Why go coil over????

How about this.

[CliftonRover]

yeah thats the place I looked for the shackles, I would be working on a new galy. frame so I don't want to cut it up with the gone too far kit.

[CliftonRover]

I would not be switching to coil overs, just making spring plates above the axel instead of below, this gives me much better approach and departure angels and makes room for bigger tires.

[KevinNY]

3.54 diffs are going to make it near useless. You can bolt series diffs right into a coiler housing or have the R&P switched to 4.70 or 4.75s. With the setup you describe your 1st gear lo range would be only about 36:1, 10% higher than stock which is to tall to begin with. I assume all this lift is going to get larger tires which compounds the problem. If you are looking for a strong 2.25 I have an ACR power plus II motor with 22k on it that may be getting pulled for a diesel soon.

[yorker]

if you are going to lift it and put on bigger tires you'll want the lower diff ratios, 3.54 is not going to work since I assume you'll at least want 33" tires to compliment the 5" of lift you'll be getting.

With RR axles you'll gain some width but you'll still be using crappy 10 spline axles... It would be worth looking into other sources for axles, even a Toyota swap:

http://www.seriestrek.com/toyotadiffs.html

30 spline Toyota axles vs 10 spline Rover



This has been all done before, A friend of mine is redoing his lightweight, it was configured almost exactly as you intend to build except he used rear springs on the front for more flex. He found that

A. even with the early T- case the low range was not low enough.

B. even with a really strong and souped up 2.25 he did not have enough power for the tires he needed to run to take advantage of the SOA- now it is getting an EFI 289, np435 and lt230 + all HD 24 spline axles.

[TeriAnn]

First, I agree with everyone else, 3.54's are just too tall for a 2.25L unless you have lower gears in the gearbox/transfer case. Something that can bring some of the bottom high range gears down to their series equivalents when calculated at the axle. That's what Rover did with 4 cyl Defenders. Run the numbers on the gears that LR used with 2.5L Nintey's. That's about the tallest axle ratios you can get away with using a 3.54 R&P.

B. even with a really strong and souped up 2.25 he did not have enough power for the tires he needed to run to take advantage of the SOA- now it is getting an EFI 289, np435 and lt230 + all HD 24 spline axles.

Sounds like your friend is building a nice drive train!

I have a 302, T-18, Series tranfer case with Ashcroft high ratio kit, Salisbury rear with ARB and HD 24 spline axles, LR 10 spline front with Quaife diff. I've found the 10 spline front to be the weak point in the driveline and am trying to convert to 24 spline HD fronts.

I recently conveted from carb to 1991 Mustang EFI (engine is 1970 302) and have discovered an unexpeced bonus. The engine idles at 750 RPM and the ECU can control air intake, fuel and spark to maintin that idle RPM. That means if I put the engine into gear and keep my foot off the throttle the ECU will maintain smooth 750 RPM up hills and over obsticals.

I find this to be of extreme interest for 2 reasons:

1. My engine has more power at idle than a performance 2.25L has at peak

2. My low range first gear gives me an overall ratio of 70:1 at the axle. I was unable to keep the accelerator pedal steady enough to keep the vehicle from constantly surging. With the EFI maintaining a constant 750 RPM in Low range first, I can finally use it to slowly move over obsticals. I had been bummed knowing I had this nice low rock crawling gear that I could not use.

[yorker]

TAW:
Is the mustang EFI Speed density or Mass Air? I thought '91 was Speed density?

Cliftonrover:

I neglected to mention my friend replaced the Lightweight's rear end with one the salisbury from my 109- and then upgraded it with Maxidrive axles, I can't remember what lockers he is using F+R but probably Detroits.

You may find you need high steer arms with the SOA- I'm not sure since you are using Coiler axles...

Remember if you want to do ******** stuff the 10 spline axles on the LR are 1.10" diameter- for comparison's sake a Suzuki Samurai has 1.09" axles and more splines IIRC...

some good discussion on axles has emerged here:

http://p200.ezboard.com/fgunsandroversfrm1.showMessage?topicID=7266.topic

[edit]-
Here are some kind of crappy cell phone pics of the lightweight during its first SOA build:

[CliftonRover]

thanks for the advice, i know all about the weakness es of the 10 splines as I plow 60 driveways with a late IIA. That is definatly something I would like to fix but I figue it could come later, without lockers and a 2.25 I would be ok for a little while. As for the gearing I was hoping the 3.54's would make my hi range ok without an overdrive on the highway. I have a set of 4.70's I could put in and I have a 89 RR v8 that i could put a carb on, (the fuel injection on my daily driver is annoying, I like things simple.) If I put the 3.9 in with a series IIA box andf an early t-case with 4.70's I would worry more about the tranny and the axels. the v8 power would be nice but I have more faith in my 40 year old 2.25 than my 3.9. are there clearance problems with the V8 exhaust manifols in a series frame? A 2.25 with a weber 2 barrel, 2.5 cam and a electronic ignition could keep the project simple and keep me from getting too many speeding tickets, an i think i would still have enough power to push 33" tires
what do you think?

[TeriAnn]

TAW:
Is the mustang EFI Speed density or Mass Air? I thought '91 was Speed density?

1989 was the first year for mass air if memory serves. My '91 system is mass air.

[TeriAnn]

As for the gearing I was hoping the 3.54's would make my hi range ok without an overdrive on the highway.

You can do it if you source a five speed gearbox and transfer case from a very early Ninety or One Ten that had the 2.5L petrol engine. Alternately you can remove everything not absolutely needed, drive on the flats at sea level, feather the clutch a lot and don't worry if you don't always make zero to 60 in the same day. Have you considered 4.1 R&P?

Personally I've always liked overdrives.

I have a 89 RR v8 that i could put a carb on, (the fuel injection on my daily driver is annoying, I like things simple.)

There's nothing simple about putting a 3.9 into a Series engine bay and a series gearbox is not up to that much HP.

A 2.25 with a weber 2 barrel, 2.5 cam and a electronic ignition could keep the project simple and keep me from getting too many speeding tickets, an i think i would still have enough power to push 33" tires
what do you think?

I think that with 3.54 R&P behind a 2.25 engine you don't have to worry about speeding tickets unless you find a long straight downhil section of road. By the way you have not said anything about the head. You want 9:1 compression for that carb & cam.

On the other hand, it is your project and you are free to persue your own dreams in your own way.

[CliftonRover]

Thank you for your advice, I looked at you page years ago with the engine specs. I know the IIA tranny isn't up to the power, but I figured I would throw it out there. I will probably end up using the 3.54's or 4.70's until i can afford a 5 speed and lockers front and rear with 4.75's. this would be my fith frame up, and I have my rangie, a 200Tdi 109, or a stock 88 to drive in the mean time. the 2.25L I have has great compression, but the engine has been sitting so I would need to do head work anyway, cause the seals are dried up. I ran 265/75's on an 88" with a high ratio transfer case and it was definatly not good for the hills in vermont, but it worked on the connecticut shorline. the SOA would also be running no roof so it would be fairly light. I absolutly trust your juudgement, but it comes down to how much cash a college kid has to spend on and extra rig.