What Carb?

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  • TeriAnn
    Overdrive
    • Nov 2006
    • 1087

    #16
    I suggest that folks with after market carbs who haven't already done so find a place where they will stick an O2 sensor up your tail pipe and just give you an air to fuel ratio number. Knowing what it is allows you to dial in a main jet for best fuel mileage. These carbs often are jetted wrong for the Land Rover engine.

    There are a lot of things that affect fuel mileage on a LR. Such as weight, tyre type, top or no top, altitude, where you drive and how your right foot treats the pedal. Most hard top LRs with the right air fuel mixture seem to get around 15-16 US MPG on the open highway and 7-9 MPG stop and go driving. If you plug the 2.25L's numbers into an engine volumetric efficiency formula you will get a flow rate of 128.6621 CFM at 4250 RPM, the max. rated power for the 2.25 engine.

    Here are some numbers from the formula:
    engine RPM - CFM
    2000 - 64.6
    2500 - 80.7 (peak torque)
    3000 - 96.7
    3500 - 105.9
    4000 - 121.1
    4250 - 128.7 (peak HP)

    Tests performed by Jim Allan showed that the oil bath filter with its 90 degree adapter becomes more restrictive with increased air demand and "pretty much falls on its face by 3800 RPM" Its great for getting the particles out of the air going into your engine and suitable for regular driving below about 3500 RPM. On the other hand a K&N will breath freely through the engine's RPM range but does a lousy job of cleaning the air. OK for highway use but maybe not the best choice off the pavement. Some people carry both and switch between them depending upon where they drive.

    A quick note about air flow & the smaller venturi carbs: a carb with a smaller venturi will normally produce more torque at a lower/mid rpm range because the velocity of the air/fuel mixture through the venturi will be higher and you get better fuel atomization and better combustion. Air flow testing referenced below was done by Jim Allen close to sea level. With that in mind:

    The Solex flows 115CFM @ 1.5" of mercury. Traditionally the Solex is an excellent carb for trail driving and works very well at lower RPMs. But it is more restrictive than the other carbs at freeway speeds.

    The factory Zenith flows 127CFM @ 1.5" mercury. Traditionally the Zenith is a good performer across the RPM range and a smooth running carb. It is usually considered the best choice for a 7:1 engine and a good choice for a stock 8:1 engine. It is a little flat at peak HP RPMs but few people ever drive there.

    Rochester B carbs comes in different venturi sizes. You want the one that came on the smallest Chevy inline six. It flows 167CFM @ 1.5" mercury which is enough to handle the entire RPM range of a 2.25L engine. It is a very simple carb with a centre float that works well at high off road angles. The main jet is at the top of the fuel bowl so a little crud in the bottom of the bowl doesn't affect it.

    Weber 34-ICH carbs usually sold for use with LRs are a generic replacement carb. They often come jetted too lean for the LR engine. When they do people report really good fuel mileage but tend to burn a valve or piston from running too lean. If you are getting better than 16 MPG highway on one have your air to fuel ratio checked to make sure it is jetted correctly. Different versions of this carb can have different flow ratings. One commonly found on LR engines flows 138CFM @ 1.5" of mercury. The Webers can often develop problems from crud getting past the fuel filter. Its main jet is at the bottom of the float chamber where it is easily clogged by particulate matter. So a good fuel filter, replaced often is essential for keeping these carbs trouble free.

    The 2.5L engine came from the factory with a 32/34-DMTL progressive 2 barrel Weber. Unfortunately this is a discontinued carb & is hard to find in the US. Venturi sizes are 26/27 mm. This carb flows 194CFM @ 1.5" of mercury. This carb was coupled with an additional quarter liter displacement and the 2.5L cam with 8:1 head. It is usually considered a good choice for a performance rebuilt 2.25 engine. But the carb is hard to come by unless you buy a complete 2.5 engine.

    The 38-DGAS 36/36 Weber commonly sold in the US for use on a LR is flow rated at 424CFM @ 1.5" of mercury and is way too much carb for the engine. Its venturi size is 36/36mm.

    Another 2 barrel carb often sold in the US for LRs is the Weber 28/36-DCD. Its venturis are 26/27 MM. Its flow rate is 224CFM @ 1.5" of mercury. This is still way more than a 2.25L can handle, but some people have been able to jet it down well enough that it works on a LR engine.

    My thoughts are that for a stock engine staying with the stock carb is always a good choice as long as it is running within spec. If you feel a need for an aftermarket carb, the Rochester B series that came on the small Chevy six and the generic replacement Weber 34-ICH are both good choices so long as they are jetted properly. The Rochester often comes over jetted and the Weber often comes under jetted. You really want to have the air fuel ratio tested to get the jetting right.
    -

    Teriann Wakeman_________
    Flagstaff, AZ.




    1960 Land Rover Dormobile, owned since 1978

    My Land Rover web site

    Comment

    • scott
      Overdrive
      • Oct 2006
      • 1226

      #17
      Originally posted by TeriAnn
      ...Weber 34-ICH carbs usually sold for use with LRs are a generic replacement carb. They often come jetted too lean for the LR engine. When they do people report really good fuel mileage but tend to burn a valve or piston from running too lean. If you are getting better than 16 MPG highway on one have your air to fuel ratio checked to make sure it is jetted correctly. Different versions of this carb can have different flow ratings. One commonly found on LR engines flows 138CFM @ 1.5" of mercury. The Webers can often develop problems from crud getting past the fuel filter. Its main jet is at the bottom of the float chamber where it is easily clogged by particulate matter. So a good fuel filter, replaced often is essential for keeping these carbs trouble free.

      The 2.5L engine came from the factory with a 32/34-DMTL progressive 2 barrel Weber. Unfortunately this is a discontinued carb & is hard to find in the US. Venturi sizes are 26/27 mm. This carb flows 194CFM @ 1.5" of mercury. This carb was coupled with an additional quarter liter displacement and the 2.5L cam with 8:1 head. It is usually considered a good choice for a performance rebuilt 2.25 engine. But the carb is hard to come by unless you buy a complete 2.5 engine.

      The 38-DGAS 36/36 Weber commonly sold in the US for use on a LR is flow rated at 424CFM @ 1.5" of mercury and is way too much carb for the engine. Its venturi size is 36/36mm.

      Another 2 barrel carb often sold in the US for LRs is the Weber 28/36-DCD. Its venturis are 26/27 MM. Its flow rate is 224CFM @ 1.5" of mercury. This is still way more than a 2.25L can handle, but some people have been able to jet it down well enough that it works on a LR engine.
      ....
      terriann

      a lot of good dope on the webers, thanks. can you tell me where the 32/36 DGEV fits in? reading from redlineweber.com i'm wonder if it's not close to the 32/34 DMTL. the 32/36 DGEV isn't that rare here in the states
      '64 Series IIA 88 Canvas Tilt
      '68 Series IIA RHD Ambulance
      '76 Spitfire 1500
      '07 LR3 (Series Recovery Vehicle)

      Comment

      • LR Max
        3rd Gear
        • Feb 2010
        • 315

        #18
        Weber 34-ICH carbs usually sold for use with LRs are a generic replacement carb. They often come jetted too lean for the LR engine. When they do people report really good fuel mileage but tend to burn a valve or piston from running too lean. If you are getting better than 16 MPG highway on one have your air to fuel ratio checked to make sure it is jetted correctly. Different versions of this carb can have different flow ratings. One commonly found on LR engines flows 138CFM @ 1.5" of mercury. The Webers can often develop problems from crud getting past the fuel filter. Its main jet is at the bottom of the float chamber where it is easily clogged by particulate matter. So a good fuel filter, replaced often is essential for keeping these carbs trouble free.
        Funny, mine came outta the box WAY too rich. But replacing the jets in this carb is super easy.

        Yes, junk will get clogged in this carb easily. However wal-mart sells a generic FRAM filter that is THE BEES KNEES. I just replaced mine after a good solid 6 years of service. Really helps keep any carb clean. Put right before the carb and you are good to go.

        Thanks for posting up the CFM requirements of the engine. If I could find my "engine calculations" book I could've figured it out but having you tell me is 500x easier . My current K&N is too small and actually restricts airflow on the interstate. But I noticed the big K&Ns at Advance auto are only $35 so I'll be switching over to one of those here directly.

        Comment

        • TeriAnn
          Overdrive
          • Nov 2006
          • 1087

          #19
          Originally posted by LR Max
          Thanks for posting up the CFM requirements of the engine. If I could find my "engine calculations" book I could've figured it out but having you tell me is 500x easier
          I had to make use of the formula when I chose an air filter and pre-filter to put on my Land Rover. When I converted my engine over to EFI I decided that my poor engine had eaten too much dust from not being the lead vehicle in off road convoys. I ran the formula on my engine to get the flow parameters so I could go through the Donaldson catalogue to find a filter and prefilter that best met my engine and my normal driving RPM range. So like everything else I've had to research for my truck I keep the formula handy in my Land Rover web site for easy quick reference.


          I ended up with a Donaldson filter mounted to the underside of my right wing top and a prefilter that was a direct 6 inch run into the filter intake. One thing I wanted to do was minimize changes in air flow direction.


          In the picture above you can see the very bottom of the air filter along the top of the wing opening. The prefilter is a straight run into the filter intake. The filter out is at the rear of the filter aimed directly into the engine bay.

          For those of you who are interested, the outer wing panel is from an early Defender that came without wing side lights, the tyres are 33.3 inches in dia on Disco I steel wheels. I was going to convert to 35 inch tyres but decided that the 33's were as tall as I could go and still easily step into my truck. With 35's I would have to climb in. My truck is also a daily driver and having to climb into a truck in a dress struck me as too unlady like. Unless the skirt is full it would mean hiking my skirt up to about mid thigh. So 33's it is for fashion and modesty's sake. Oh and the vehicle colour is British racing green.
          -

          Teriann Wakeman_________
          Flagstaff, AZ.




          1960 Land Rover Dormobile, owned since 1978

          My Land Rover web site

          Comment

          • widerberg
            Low Range
            • Feb 2010
            • 30

            #20
            I don't know that I prefer it, necessarily, as I haven't tried any others, but my recently-bought SIII came with a Weber 34 ICH. Most of the sources I've found say this offers less power but better fuel consumption than the Zenith; but I've read in some of the Brit classic car mags that they're pretty highly regarded. So, who knows? (Incidentally, they're apparently used on performance air-cooled beetles, too).
            Bo Widerberg
            '73 Land Rover 88"
            '69 VW Bus (Westy)
            '69 VW Beetle

            Comment

            • utahseries
              1st Gear
              • Apr 2009
              • 155

              #21
              Thanks for that great load of Info TeriAnn! Now this question is more directed to the series 1 owners who have switched over to the 2.25, what carbs will give you the necessary clearance under the hood? I really want to run a rochester b, but I'm not sure if it will fit.
              1956 86" S1
              1957 88" S1
              1967 109" SIIA NADA
              2007 LR3

              Comment

              • 1961 109 WAGON
                2nd Gear
                • Dec 2006
                • 227

                #22
                after trying a zenith on my 88, i stuck witht the stock solex. i have one on my 109, and with 97, 000 miles, it has never been rebuilt or leak. i have solex on both my rides.

                Comment

                • gudjeon
                  5th Gear
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 613

                  #23
                  I went with the Zenith under the hood of my ser1 with the 2.25 as it has the lowest profile I have found and I have had good luck with them.

                  It is kinda crude, but it works. I have seen old motors made with a more restrictive set up than this. I made it wide to make up for volume due to a lower profile. Electrical conduit tubing and sheet metal. I kept the ser1 air cleaner. 24 Imp mpg on the highway, so it can't be restrictive. Rubber plumbing connector used for cast iron piping from the hardware store. Cheap and cheerful

                  Comment

                  • Wander
                    2nd Gear
                    • Jan 2010
                    • 260

                    #24
                    In relation to my thread on petrol smell-my IIa can with the 1v Weber-I don't know if it's been rejetted or not. I am getting a strong petrol smell after running her that smells like unspent fuel in the carb or a leak. I can't find a leak anywhere and another person mentioned the same problems with his. I've heard that running a return line from the filter helps but now I'm thinking maybe a Rochester would be a better idea overall.

                    I've got a low pressure e-pump with a pre-filter and another filter just before the carb supplying the flow.

                    I'm also getting some dieseling and lugging which indicates to me the timing is off.
                    64 IIa 88
                    94 Discovery
                    06 Toyota 4R (DD)

                    ~Matt
                    --------------------------------------------
                    "Not all who wander are lost"~Tolkein

                    Comment

                    • rosims
                      Low Range
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 71

                      #25
                      Rochester B Series 1bbl

                      I hate to beat a dead horse to death, but I am wanting to put a Rochester on my 109. I have a carburator, but the tag is missing on it and do not know which engine it came on. does anyone know how to tell the difference or have a measurement for the venturi size? How can you tell which one is the smallest one? I am going to rebuild it and put it on and see what happens. I have the #50 jet and a carb kit, for $20 , it's worth the try.
                      sigpic
                      2006 LR3
                      1967 109 Station Wagon
                      M37B1
                      M38A1

                      Comment

                      • TeriAnn
                        Overdrive
                        • Nov 2006
                        • 1087

                        #26
                        Originally posted by rosims
                        I hate to beat a dead horse to death, but I am wanting to put a Rochester on my 109. I have a carburator, but the tag is missing on it and do not know which engine it came on. does anyone know how to tell the difference or have a measurement for the venturi size? How can you tell which one is the smallest one? I am going to rebuild it and put it on and see what happens. I have the #50 jet and a carb kit, for $20 , it's worth the try.
                        The best Rochester has a 31m venturi diameter. I never found a good way to accurately measure the venturi diameter.

                        A #50 jet is a good place to start but the best main jet size is dependent upon which Rochester you have and the altitude you usually drive at. You really need to get a sniffer up the tail pipe to dial in the best jet for fuel economy that doesn't under jet the engine.
                        -

                        Teriann Wakeman_________
                        Flagstaff, AZ.




                        1960 Land Rover Dormobile, owned since 1978

                        My Land Rover web site

                        Comment

                        • rosims
                          Low Range
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 71

                          #27
                          I have a 5 main 2.25 and on the intake there is a sleeve on the intake along with a spacer. It origianlly has a weber with the adapter. When I put this rochester on it, should this sleeve be removed? With the spacer on there and the thick carb gasket, the slot for the vacum port is still partially blocked by the sleeve. would this effect the carb performance, It has a terrible flat spot in it.
                          sigpic
                          2006 LR3
                          1967 109 Station Wagon
                          M37B1
                          M38A1

                          Comment

                          • siii8873
                            Overdrive
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 1011

                            #28
                            what should the sniffer readings be for optimal performance?
                            THING 1 - 1973 88 SIII - SOLD
                            THING 2 -1974 88 SIII Daily Driver - SOLD
                            THING 3 - 1969 88 SIIA Bugeye Project
                            THING 4 - 1971 109 SIIA ExMod - SOLD
                            THING 5 - 1958 109 PU
                            THING 6 - 1954 86" HT

                            Comment

                            • Sputnicker
                              1st Gear
                              • May 2009
                              • 105

                              #29
                              I have the metal sleeve in my intake manifold, but I also have the phenolic spacer which puts the carburetor flange well above the metal sleeve. I'm not sure if it would matter whether you removed the sleeve, or added the phenolic spacer, but blocking that vacuum path with the metal sleeve would definitely screw up the function of the Rochester B. TeriAnn has a great write-up on her website and here is a manual for the Rochester B, which should help:

                              Comment

                              • 73series88
                                5th Gear
                                • Oct 2009
                                • 587

                                #30
                                i use the Weber 34 ICH.
                                seems to be pretty trouble free other than cleaning out the jets every so often. i havent had others to compare.
                                now if i could get su's like the ones on my mga.
                                aaron
                                73 series III 88 2.5 na diesel daily driver
                                67 series 2a 88 RHD sold
                                88 RRC sold
                                60 mga coupe

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