Expensive Series on Ebay

[jgkmmoore]

Bucks sale for 88

I splurged.
Just this week I bought a new red knob, and a new yellow knob for the 109. The old ones were tired, and she needed some good color in the cab. She's still running perfectly, so that's it for the year for 'mad lust buys'.

Cross me fingers,
Jeff

[TeriAnn]

I would like to get back to the point with this auction, and how this person was able to get that kind of money.

I must say that the person selling this truck presented it masterfully.

Yes. most people confuse style with substance and can often not readily see beyond the style. So yes if you want to get a good price for anything, presentation is critical. However, it is obvious that the truck has been completely gone through, given fresh paint, new seals & gaskets and evidently put into first class running condition. That adds a LOT to the value of a truck. Yes the person restoring the truck seemed either unclear or uninterested in the fine paint details such as not painting the master cylinder and getting engine paint colours incorrect. So what? It wouldn't bother most people. Professional Series restorations done by companies who know their Series trucks often sell for twice to three times the closing price of the ebay auction. The ebay truck is not perfect but people were willing to pay for the work & parts that went into the rebuild. Actually I suspect the seller was not getting minimum wage for the time spent on the project.

I agree with Thixon in that it is not top-notch. The galvy painted silver, the obnoxious oil-free underside, etc. Whoever did it, took great care to clean everything to excess, but I fear there is alot of "dressing up a pig" going on. Paint and degreaser can do wonders if someone is not afraid to apply a little effort and sweat.

Like some others who have posted on this list I do not feel good that so many of you feel a need to put down someone else's truck and automatically assume that the seller is trying to pull something over on bidders.

I didn't read that the galvanizing was painted silver. Did ANYONE ask the seller? I did see the typical galvanization pattern on the front bumper. I do know that a lot of people doing a rebuild on their trucks (at least on the West coast) remove the galvanized bits and have them regalvanized. And I do know there are products that clean up an oxidized galvanized surface to look shiny and new. Who can tell sliver paint from a fresh unoxidized galvanized surface from those pictures??

You need to have leaking seals and gaskets for a Land Rover to be considered to be in good shape?? How silly is that? Right now my front & rear diffs, swivels, gearbox and transfercase are not leaking at all. This is because the gaskets and seals are doing what they are supposed to be doing. I do have a little weeping from the engine if it makes you feel better.

Having a clean undercarriage on a truck that was just rebuilt is not automatically "dressing a pig" Why do you immediately assume the worse and put the truck & seller down with no real evidence?

Not that it is a bad Rover, by any means, and I would also like to say to anyone who will be angry with me for speaking negatively about it: I probably could not have done better. But I can respect the Concourse-grade of work that Jac04 does, and this certainly ain't it.

So a rebuild that is not concourse enough for your standards deserves to be derided and the rebuilder deserves to be cast as a less than honest villain?

Geesh guys there are a number of you who seem willing to stone the truck and tar and feather the seller just because it makes you feel good to put other's truck & efforts down. Just because the rebuild is not to concourse standards???? How silly is that? If you knew the truck well and personally knew the character of the seller, maybe you might have grounds for this. But I don't see any positive basis for these attacks. You guys are just being mean because it makes you feel good. It demeans anyone's efforts to rebuild their Series Land Rover but not to the point of being a serious concourse contender. And woe on the person who decides to sell their recently rebuilt truck for whatever reason.

[kevkon]

Actually I suspect the seller was not getting minimum wage for the time spent on the project.

You're not kidding. That truck sold for half of what it would if it were done strictly as a profitable endeavor. Everyone should realize that the seller would have walked away with a higher profit if he had simply cleaned up the truck and sold it after he purchased it. There's obviously a lot of care and love that went into that restoration even if it doesn't meet everyone's standards.

[Rineheitzgabot]

Yes. most people confuse style with substance and can often not readily see beyond the style. So yes if you want to get a good price for anything, presentation is critical. However, it is obvious that the truck has been completely gone through, given fresh paint, new seals & gaskets and evidently put into first class running condition. That adds a LOT to the value of a truck. Yes the person restoring the truck seemed either unclear or uninterested in the fine paint details such as not painting the master cylinder and getting engine paint colours incorrect. So what? It wouldn't bother most people. Professional Series restorations done by companies who know their Series trucks often sell for twice to three times the closing price of the ebay auction. The ebay truck is not perfect but people were willing to pay for the work & parts that went into the rebuild. Actually I suspect the seller was not getting minimum wage for the time spent on the project.




Like some others who have posted on this list I do not feel good that so many of you feel a need to put down someone else's truck and automatically assume that the seller is trying to pull something over on bidders.

I didn't read that the galvanizing was painted silver. Did ANYONE ask the seller? I did see the typical galvanization pattern on the front bumper. I do know that a lot of people doing a rebuild on their trucks (at least on the West coast) remove the galvanized bits and have them regalvanized. And I do know there are products that clean up an oxidized galvanized surface to look shiny and new. Who can tell sliver paint from a fresh unoxidized galvanized surface from those pictures??

You need to have leaking seals and gaskets for a Land Rover to be considered to be in good shape?? How silly is that? Right now my front & rear diffs, swivels, gearbox and transfercase are not leaking at all. This is because the gaskets and seals are doing what they are supposed to be doing. I do have a little weeping from the engine if it makes you feel better.

Having a clean undercarriage on a truck that was just rebuilt is not automatically "dressing a pig" Why do you immediately assume the worse and put the truck & seller down with no real evidence?




So a rebuild that is not concourse enough for your standards deserves to be derided and the rebuilder deserves to be cast as a less than honest villain?

Geesh guys there are a number of you who seem willing to stone the truck and tar and feather the seller just because it makes you feel good to put other's truck & efforts down. Just because the rebuild is not to concourse standards???? How silly is that? If you knew the truck well and personally knew the character of the seller, maybe you might have grounds for this. But I don't see any positive basis for these attacks. You guys are just being mean because it makes you feel good. It demeans anyone's efforts to rebuild their Series Land Rover but not to the point of being a serious concourse contender. And woe on the person who decides to sell their recently rebuilt truck for whatever reason.

Wow. I am sorry that I offended. Some of my words were a bit harsh (like the dressing up a pig reference), but I don't think you got my over all jist; and for that, I apologize since I didn't communicate it clearly.

My point is simply this: Would anyone on this forum pay that kind of money for that vehicle? I would say that the answer would be no, unanimously. Please let me know if you disagree.

The reason why this seller got so much for it, were for two reasons: 1) The buyer was possibly, or probably a first time Series owner, and 2) the presentation of the auction/restoration.

I disagree with you that I like criticizing others' trucks as a "stepping stone" for my own, petty, little, ego. In fact, I get no fun from that; I am interested in how a person gets so much money for an item on eBay that is not worth it. My truck is not near that nice, and have no problem admitting it. My ego is not wrapped up in material issues like this. I have my faults, but that is not one of them.

As I may have led you to believe, I don't think the truck is a pig. Again, my apologies. I also don't think the seller is a villain (did I really make it sound like this?) I did not think that Snidely Whiplash was brilliantly scheming each step of opening an auction on eBay, then laughing maniacally after pressing "enter". I simply think that they did a smashing-good job at presenting the auction. It did not look like a car dealer auction, and it didn't look like a hillbilly restoration shop auction; it was near perfect.

Again, I was interested in how a seller can get top notch money, for a very clean Series, of non-top-notch quality.

[JimCT]

Money

Why not ask how many people here have that much or more into their rovers already? Jim

[kevkon]

I don't mean to get in the middle of this, but what's not top notch in the quality ( not accuracy) of that restoration? Don't you think there are more than a few on this forum who have spent that much and more on their trucks? I can think of two off hand that have got to be close to 30k and that's not considering what the owner's time is valued at.

[Rineheitzgabot]

I'm sticking to my point:

Who on here, would have paid $22k for that very nice, clean Series that this thread was started on?

Please respond. Think about it, and consider whether you would want to purchase one that someone else put $40k into, or purchase a cheaper-than $22k one, and put the extra money in, yourself.

[TeriAnn]

Why not ask how many people here have that much or more into their rovers already? Jim

After 32 years and a lot of miles of ownership I think I've spent around $32K on my 1960 Dormobile. Maybe more since a couple months ago my truck got a new cam, new cylinder heads along with associated parts, new aluminum radiator, a gearbox swap with new clutch, a completely rebuilt transfercase, a new pinion bearing kit in the Salisbury and 2 new to the truck propshafts.

Hopefully ready for another 100K plus miles. I don't want to know my total expenditure cost. I think I would faint if I kept records. But you know I love my truck. I put lots of miles on it and it shows me new places and gives me new life experiences. I can't put a monetary value on what she gave back to me.

And I've seen really top concourse restored Series trucks sell for the $45K to $60K region. A vehicle is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Just don't poo poo a rig that is out of your cost range.

[4flattires]

I'm done reading this thread.

[SafeAirOne]

Suddenly this thread has become interestng to me...

TerriAnn kind of alluded to a point that I think almost ALL of us can relate to. I don't really think it would be unfair to say that each one of us has x many dollars we have devoted to our Rovers over time. I'll use myself as an example...

I bought my current 109 at the height of the market for $7000. I swapped out the dead 2.6P for a 2.5NAD for $3000. I put a bunch of other stuff into it over the years for about $2000+-. Now I'm overhauling the engine for about $1500. If I sold it today, would I be able to get the $13,500 I have into it? No way.

I doubt most of us will ever get back what we have in our rovers. Mine is a daily driver and somewhat frequent off-roader, so it looks well-used, but runs like a champ and is quite reliable.

If someone can take the time to make a Rover look (and pereform) really decently and can get top dollar for doing so, then RIGHT ON I say!

No matter what anyone thinks, each and every one or our Rovers are worth EXACTLY what someone is willing to pay for it, and NOT what we have invested in it.

Confession: I too have been guilty of...having fun...with Rovers on ebay...Ones that have many, many more gauges and controls than there could ever possibly be necessary Rover, and Rovers that are awash in non-skid paint. I wish their sellers well, but I admit that that our tastes are VERY different.

[gudjeon]

If a Sillies 2 could go for that, I would like to know what my sillies 1 would go for. Not as pristine, but will take me anywhere at anytime in style.

[TJR]

So does ebay only make $100 or so off that 22K final bid price?

I'm rebuilding, not restoring my 88S3
I'm not too much different than many others here....and I've got 10K into it so far and still just have piles of parts and boxes of rusty greasy parts to clean.

Conservative estimates here...quicky summary

Vehicle purchase price (given to me from family)

Galv Frame and parabolics & OME shocks $3000
Engine rebuild and parts $3000
Body panels (2 doors, 2 rear door, door tops, troptop,D90 Bulkhead, rad support) $2000
gas tanks(2) $300
por 15 $100
PTO winch $700
rims and tires $800
Cyl. Head $600
RN MT Mansfiel heater & sliders
swivels, bearings, brake, M/C, Clutch Cyl. Slave cly.
new lower dash, New door mirrors, latchtes, RAI air cleaner, New Galvy body caps,new floor boards

plus all the nickle & dime stuff... $100's

Should I add tools and shop supplies?
Shop press, Engine hoist, sand blaster, hand tools, Mig welder, solvents, paints,,,,

And why its a rebuild not resto..
11 front drums, Silisbury rear axle, trop top. RM spings and door tops
dlx bonnet, GM alt. Non-factory engine block paint, custom hitch, will have radio.


How many hours... so far..? This is fun project that I can work on when I want to , not when I have too...
I'm cheap.. I'd never pay 22K (not that it's not worth it) but I'd say I can do it myself, but it will take me 10+ years.

My cheapest way out would have been to buy a used runnnig rig w/ dents etc.. and start driving it.. fix it as I go...


...Talbot

[LaneRover]

I would argue that what you would pay for a Rover and how much you would put into a Rover are two very different things.

[Rineheitzgabot]

I would argue that what you would pay for a Rover and how much you would put into a Rover are two very different things.

Brent; thank you. This is my point, exactly. Most of us don't have the cash flow to drop on something like that, given time (even 20 years), we could drop thousands upon thousands on a vehicle.

Teriann; you didn't answer my question about whether or not YOU would pay $22k for THAT Rover.

[bmohan55]

I was told that when you buy your Series,the purchase price is only the first payment.

Maybe you could/should consider the price paid for that e-bay Series as a "balloon payment"