Copper "grease" on bolts

[NickDawson]

Hey gang,
Been meaning to ask this for a while - Ive noticed that a lot of bolts connected to the body or frame on my UK import seem to be coated in a grease that has an almost copper looking shine to it.

Anyone ever seen that and have any idea what it is?

It could very well be just a liberal coating of engine and gear oil mixed with filings from wear... but was curious if it was something particular.

Thanks
-N

[Lalo88DK]

I always use copper-grease on bolts when I bolt them back together, then you have no trouble taking things apart again even after 10-15 years.

[Monkeyboy]

Look for a tube / can labeled "Anti-Seize" at your local parts store.

[msggunny]

Its what monkey boy said, anti seize. Good stuff to have on those bolts. Is it ex mod?

[Apis Mellifera]

[NickDawson]

ahhhh thanks very much gang!
I'll have to pick some up!

[slorocco]

Wurth also makes one. I've got a can that's lasted me over ten years, and still going.

[bkreutz]

LocTite also makes anti seize in a stick form (kinda like chap stick) I find it a whole lot less messy.

[Crash]

Will it prevent corrosion between aluminum and steel? In those places where a bolt might be in contact with aluminum.

Crash

[Rineheitzgabot]

Nick-

I think it is funny, that if it didn't have Anti-Seize on them, odds are you would have posted somewhere on here saying something like, "these sonz-a-b!tchin' bolts are so corroded together, I am having a heII of a time getting this stuff apart." And quite possibly, you may have even said, "Is there any product I can put on these fasteners so they come apart easier next time?" Maybe not. Anyway, be thankful someone did that. It is not common that people do that.

Almost anytime I take something apart on the old girl, I smear a little on the threads of all the fasteners, just in case I ever have to take it apart again. Makes life so much easier. I keep a special miniature paint brush on my work bench, especially for this.

FYI: Don't ever get it in the laundry! You will wish you never bought the Rover after your wife gets through with you.

Crash-

I do not think that it will prevent electrolysis (the corrosion that occurs from certain dissimilar metals coming in prolonged contact with each other). However, I would love to hear what others think.

-Gary

[printjunky]

Just try finding out what the conventional wisdom is on any galvanic effect from anti-seize compounds. I dare ya!

I've found nothing very compelling or scientific to support any of the assertions I read. Half was marketing, the other half was opinion.

If I had to assess trends in those opinions and claims (after reading/skimming a hundred or so through several different searches), I'd say both Al- and Cu-based are fine on steel->steel (which is also my experience/observation). Aluminum->steel seems to be the diciest opinion-wise, though I did read that Rover required Cu-based A-S on that type of mating. Zinc-based A-S was also mentioned for Al->Steel. Nickel-based A-S was recommended a couple of times for Stainless.

Interestingly, several companies claim one or more (but not all) of their formulas prevent galvanic corrosion. That implies a difference in that capability among the various formulas.

I have used the copper-based A-S with success and currently have a jar of the aluminum-based on the shelf that seems to be working fine, mostly on steel->steel, with no ill effects. My opinion and (my) logic dictates that there are likely to be no problems using a bit of A-S ... copper- OR aluminum-based ... on any threads on a Series Rover. Particularly in light of the metal being suspended in a heavy-ish grease with other compounds included (there were several claims - including companies listing some ingredients that the basic copper-based A-S also contains aluminum. eg: the Permatex basic A-S).

There's a lot of freaking out in the internets about whether using A-S changes torque specs, increases fastener failure rates, etc - and I'm no metallurgist, but I just don't see a very high likelihood of there being any statistically significant real-word consequence. With the vagaries and variability of fastener construction, mass-market metallurgy, torque specs, and variances (+/-), vibration, environment, etc, etc - it's sometimes a wonder that the wheels don't fly off every time a Rover (or any car) takes a corner above 25mph. Yet somehow, knock on Birmabright, they usually don't. I'd consult a pro if I were doing my own maintenance on my nuke-you-lure sub. But otherwise, I think we'll be OK.

It appears, nickel- and zinc-based A-S apply to a wider set of metal-to-metal circumstances and temperature ranges

Permatex does make an interesting non-metal (they say) anti-seize for marine use. Might allay any of those (galvanic) worries whatsoever.

[jac04]

If you are concerned about galvanic corrosion between the fastener(s) and the parts being bolted together:
Galvanic corrosion will take place between any two dissimilar metals that are in electrical contact with each other and submeresed in an electrolyte. No type of AS will stop galvanic corrosion on the areas of the bolts & parts that are exposed to the electrolyte. The AS may stop galvanic corrosion only on the areas that it is directly applied to, because it 'insulates' that area from the electrolyte & stops ion migration

[jac04]

Here's the rest of the story:
Now, I guess the other concern is the metal in the AS itself setting up the galvanic reaction. That may be why the "marine grade" ASs state that they don't cause galvanic corrosion and they are metal-free.
Anyhow, on to the torque issue. AS will affect the torque value to be used on fasteners since it greatly affects the coefficient of friction between the threads.
Since Torque = Preload x Bolt Diameter x Coeff. of Friction, if the CoF drops, the torque must be reduced to provide the same fastener preload. Dry torque versus lubricated torque is very different. Usually dry torque is about 33% higher than lubricated torque for the same preload. I use 3M Brake Lube/Anti Seize, and right on the can it warns of possible fastener problems from using it.
Most torque values called out in the service manual are dry torques, so applying AS and using the same torque value will result in too much bolt preload. This can lead to fastener and/or component failure.

[thixon]

The short answer:

No it won't help much, if at all. Its not gonna stay where you want it to anyway. A better option is to try some of the tapes and sticky coverings on the market. Go to 3M's website.

Unless you're 15, you'll be dead or in a nursing home by the time you have real trouble with galvanic corrosion anyway.

[amcordo]

Am I the only person on here that's replaced all of the bolts in the thing (except the drive-train bolts) with stainless? Just kinda curious...