Clutch is Out - Help!

[robert wood]

Hold it right there! Anyone who takes a fender or sideskin off a LH drive Series or Defender to change a clutch master cylinder is a masochist. It is far far easier to remove the brake pedal and then the clutch pedal, clean everything up, repair and put back. Six 5/16 bolts each pedal and you can undo them with a i/2 socket. Room to camp in. Of course you have to disconnect the brake line but as you are doing this at the highest point it is nothing to re-bleed the brakes.
Ray in Vancouver

[amcordo]

Hold it right there! Anyone who takes a fender or sideskin off a LH drive Series or Defender to change a clutch master cylinder is a masochist. It is far far easier to remove the brake pedal and then the clutch pedal, clean everything up, repair and put back. Six 5/16 bolts each pedal and you can undo them with a i/2 socket. Room to camp in. Of course you have to disconnect the brake line but as you are doing this at the highest point it is nothing to re-bleed the brakes.
Ray in Vancouver

Hey Ray!

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there ! I'd say anyone who does not remove the wing for a MC replacement/service is a masochist. I ended up spending a couple hours last year trying to replace my MC with the advice that you don't have to remove the wing. In reality, if I had just attacked the wing and taken it off (5-10 minutes) then I would have had no trouble getting my less-than-nimble fingers in to the small corner to get that MC out. This way you don't have to bench bleed the brake MC which (for me) always turns into a messy, castrol-wasting affair.

Plus, while you've got the wing off you can go ahead and inspect hoses, clean that side of the engine thoroughly, etc.

Just my $.02!

[KevinNY]

X2, the wing comes off so easily. Gives you a chanch to clean out any mud in the door posts and spray some waxoyl in there too. But everyone has their own way of doing things I guess.

[LaneRover]

Wait, we all own old Land Rovers . . . . . . aren't we talking about levels of masochismo and not whether you are being masochistic or not?

[amcordo]

Wait, we all own old Land Rovers . . . . . . aren't we talking about levels of masochismo and not whether you are being masochistic or not?

+1.

[Terrys]

I've done it both ways. It's a pain to pull the front wings on an NAS Defender because you have to dissassemble the front half of the roll cage, so did it by removing the pedal boxes. Next time I have to put a clutch mc in the 110, I'll take the roll cage and wing off.

[ignotus]

Tony,

Tim's right, I forgot the series 3 has the self contained unit. I think a flex hose all the way from the M/C to the S/C might have too much expansion and not function properly with the small amount of fluid being used.
I think that Ray is saying to take both the brake and the clutch pedal/towers out at the same time to work on the clutch m/c. Without pulling the fender.
Me,... I'm one of those guys who cuts a removable section out of the top of the fender so I don't have to take it off.

gene

[Terrys]

Me,... I'm one of those guys who cuts a removable section out of the top of the fender so I don't have to take it off.

I think I've owned three of your former trucks then. One guy was so lazy, he didn't even cut it, he bent the back 12" forward. Must have been Sweeney Todd's truck, or some other butcher.

[amcordo]

Tony,

Tim's right, I forgot the series 3 has the self contained unit. I think a flex hose all the way from the M/C to the S/C might have too much expansion and not function properly with the small amount of fluid being used.
I think that Ray is saying to take both the brake and the clutch pedal/towers out at the same time to work on the clutch m/c. Without pulling the fender.
Me,... I'm one of those guys who cuts a removable section out of the top of the fender so I don't have to take it off.

gene

Can you post a picture of what you've done to your truck? I'd like to add an access point to mine in a pretty way.

[bkreutz]

Tony,

Tim's right, I forgot the series 3 has the self contained unit. I think a flex hose all the way from the M/C to the S/C might have too much expansion and not function properly with the small amount of fluid being used.
I think that Ray is saying to take both the brake and the clutch pedal/towers out at the same time to work on the clutch m/c. Without pulling the fender.
Me,... I'm one of those guys who cuts a removable section out of the top of the fender so I don't have to take it off.

gene

Flex hose will work, just a matter of getting the properly rated hose to have it made up. (think of the pressure in hydraulic lines on heavy equipment or brake hoses)

[Tim Smith]

Can you post a picture of what you've done to your truck? I'd like to add an access point to mine in a pretty way.

This probably deserves it's own thread but I've seen some people just cut a big section out and then attach it on one side with a piano hinge. When the hood is down, the new flappy bit will stay in place.

Not correct but like I said, I've seen it done.

[KevinNY]

Consider too that there is a reason why there is a long run of 1/4" pipe between the master and slave, there needs to be enough fluid between the two to fill the slave to make the whole system work.

[Terrys]

Does that really matter? The only amout that will go into the slave is the amount that the MC pushes. Whats in between doesn't change that.

[SafeAirOne]

Does that really matter? The only amount that will go into the slave is the amount that the MC pushes. Whats in between doesn't change that.

Not necessarily:

As the flexible rubber line ages, it will tend to expand when pressurized. Minimizing the length of line than is subject to this expansion is desirable in order to maximize the volume of pressurized fluid delivered to the slave cylinder. Not a problem on a backhoe, where the flex lines are much beefier
and the supply of pressurized fluid is infinite, but in a closed system with thin-wall flex lines and a measured amount of fluid being supplied, this is much more of a concern.

Compared to a nine-inch section, 3 feet of old flex line is much more apt to act as a long accumulator, storing the fluid pressure rather than passing it on to the slave cylinder.

Of course the flex line is just there to isolate the relatively stable master cylinder, mounted to the body, from the relatively shaky slave, mounted on the engine (essentially). A hard line between these 2 components would fatigue and crack eventually, hence a small section of flex line.

[Terrys]

No argument there Mark, but what I thought Kevin was refering to was the volume of the line, lets assume in a static condition, having some bearing on the amount of stroke the slave would have, i.e., longer line, more stroke. The point he was making was that the line was as long as it was for a reason, not short. I agree that the line volume would increase if there was flex-hose expansion, when under pressure, but I don't think that was the point.

As I remember back to my SCCA days, I had a line on both my Lotus 41C and my Super 7, called Hytron. It was a plastic material, quite flexible, and the whole of both car's brake and clutch system were plumbed with it, rather than steel (or phosphur bronze)