What a Difference a Name Makes

[Terrys]

I realize that the prices of Land Rovers have gone up a lot lately, and there are still lots of people out there with more dollars than sense, but come on, $106,000 for a 109 painted in a color than didn't come out till 30 odd years later? Wow, maybe I'll keep doing these.

www.orvis.com/landrover

[mongoswede]

I realize that the prices of Land Rovers have gone up a lot lately, and there are still lots of people out there with more dollars than sense, but come on, $106,000 for a 109 painted in a color than didn't come out till 30 odd years later? Wow, maybe I'll keep doing these.

www.orvis.com/landrover

thats about twice the cost of the most expensive restoration I have heard of.

[jac04]

Keep in mind that if you had a vehicle professionally restored to a very high standard you would probably be looking at about that $106k price. 1200 hours at $70/hr plus $25k in parts = $106k. In the world of having your car professionally restored, that's fairly reasonable. Trust me, I know first hand. My 68 Camaro convertible is at a restoration shop having the body restored. A top-notch job takes lots of time, and we all know time = money.

[solihull109]

thats about twice the cost of the most expensive restoration I have heard of.

That's not bad really. Ten years ago a restored Series truck at ECR "started" at 125K.

[Momo]

I believe that 109 is the correct Bronze Green (not Conniston as you might be thinking), but the pictures have been photoshopped within an inch of their life. The shot of the instrument panel shows the color more accurately.
I would love to know who the winning bidder will be and if they plan to actually use it as more than just artwork.

[Terrys]

It is most deffinately not Bronze green, and as I have a Conniston Green NAS110, I'm pretty familiar with that colour. The dash does look darker, but clearly not bronze green.
Jeff, No doubt you can spend that kind of money if you pay to have something restored, but at what point do you say 'more than it's worth' ? I was asked by a freind in CA to go check out a '60 S2 in MA he wanted to buy. The truck had the same treatment, finished to a very high degree and was 30ish

[jac04]

Jeff, No doubt you can spend that kind of money if you pay to have something restored, but at what point do you say 'more than it's worth' ?

I would say that the cost of professionally restoring almost any vehicle will exceed what most people on this forum think it's worth. The thing is that people on this forum are usually quite mechanically inclined, so they can't comprehend paying someone $50-70 per hour to work on their vehicle. Then you see similar vehicles that are restored to a very high standard by a non-professional going for less that half the cost of a professional restoration because the person is willing to give their time away. So, people are led to believe that a professionally restored vehicle should go for the same amount. It just doesn't work that way.

Is that $106k 109 worth it? It sure is. Just not to most people. But it is to a guy who has always wanted that vehicle and is in a financial situation to buy it.

With some cars, you just need to 'suck it up' when it comes to restoration costs, regardless of the market value of the car after restoration. I mentioned my Camaro. My father bought it new. He special-ordered it. After I was born, I was brought home from the hospital in it. I did almost all of the mechanical restoration work myself. However, I am not in a position to properly execute the body restoration, so I'm having it professionally done by a very reputable restoration shop. Will I end up having more into it that it's worth? To me, it doesn't matter. It costs what it costs to have the work done and done correctly. As far as value, I actually got good news about half way through the restoration when I found out that it was a rare L30/M20. According to the Camaro Research Group, relatively few of these cars were produced, and there are most likely only a few hundred of these cars remaining in existence. Couple this with the other options on the car and the fact that it's a convertible, and it could be a one-of-a-kind.

[kwd509]

I would say that the cost of professionally restoring almost any vehicle will exceed what most people on this forum think it's worth. The thing is that people on this forum are usually quite mechanically inclined, so they can't comprehend paying someone $50-70 per hour to work on their vehicle. Then you see similar vehicles that are restored to a very high standard by a non-professional going for less that half the cost of a professional restoration because the person is willing to give their time away. So, people are led to believe that a professionaly restored vehicle should go for the same amount. It just doesn't work that way.

Is that $106k 109 worth it? It sure is. Just not to most people. But it is to a guy who has always wanted that vehicle and is in a financial situation to buy it.

I can vouch for this logic. I literally inherited my 1964 this summer. Before deciding to pursue a restoration (and the learning that is going to be a prerequisite for me), I thought (rightly or wrongly) that I needed the input of an expert to tell me what I had. And, since I had a sort of cosmic connection with Lanny at a gas station a month before going to get my rover in east Tennessee (he was pulling a rover on a flatbed very similar to the one I would soon get), I used him.

Yes, he is full retail and a purist in the work he does. Accordingly, I quickly determined that I would learn and do as much of the work as possible, because I couldn't afford to have someone do it (his initial guidance was really quite helpful in addition to his work).

Having seen some of the full restorations he is doing (including the vehicle up for auction)...... Jac04 is absolutely correct.
There is a niche out there for folks who want and can afford to have a vehicle done fully and to their specifications. And I am very confident that the market being tapped by this auction is this group. Most of us don't breath the same rarified air of the auction participants. So the price will exceed the considerable work and care put into this project.

However, this forum is for folks who want/like to do their own work, or need to (or need to learn -like me) because there is no alternative. I for one am glad this forum exists because it is such a good tool for someone who will need to learn as they go.

Anyone want to project the final sale cost? - I suspect it will go considerably higher still.

[Terrys]

I don't have any difficulty understanding that we spend money, often far in excess of something's worth, to have it 'right'
More than 30 years ago, I paid a wooden boat builder well over $25K to restore my fantail steam launch hull. The boat was built in 1892, but I could have probably had the same 'shape' made in fiberglass for a third, and not had to spend 2-3 weekends every year getting it ready for the water. I can work in metal to five tenths, but in wood, I'm good to +/- 1/8". My favorite woodworking tools are a chainsaw and a baseball bat.
I love Land Rovers as much as the next guy, but having had them and used them for so long, I have trouble puting them on the same pedestal as many other classic, collectible cars. Jeff, I think your Camaro is a far more worthy candidate for an 'expensive resto', and it's only my opinion that they are meant to be done that way, where I actually use all my land rovers for work instead of display. I enjoy the journey more than the destination.
That 109 will probaly end up out on Nantucket or the Vineyard, where a landy is necessary as part of the 'package'.

[Winemark]

I agree with Terry, this car is destined for either MV, ACK or maybe the Hamptons. My guess is it will never go on a muddy / snowy or sandy track. It is a beautiful vehicle but definitely a garage queen not at all what it was originally intended for. I bought my Series from Terry as I wanted a mechanically solid truck with cosmetics as an afterthought. It loves the beach and when the snow comes it wont be in a garage hiding

[jac04]

I like this discussion. Usually there is a lot of negativity about a high-end vehicle that is going for a lot of money, but I haven't seen any here yet.

[solihull109]

I like this discussion. Usually there is a lot of negativity about a high-end vehicle that is going for a lot of money, but I haven't seen any here yet.

Agreed. A true *restoration* is extremely time consuming, and one must charge accordingly. I can appreciate when someone goes through that type of commitment even though others are baffled at the expense. It all boils down to what you prefer.
It's nice this didn't turn sideways and get ugly.

[Terrys]

I like this discussion. Usually there is a lot of negativity about a high-end vehicle that is going for a lot of money, but I haven't seen any here yet.

On the contrary, Jeff, Nothing negative can be said about the truck. It's really a statement about the quality of the work Lanny does. The reality is there are people that simply can not work to that standard, or the standards you have demonstrated in your Lightweight restoration. However, when I see a Landy that has been worked on by the OWNER's hands, whether painted with rattle cans or the best shooter out there, I get every bit as much the feeling that he was willing to put forth his best effort. Do you remember seeing the pastel green 88 running around Granby? He started with a rough truck, took a hand-me-down frame and D90 bulkhead from me, chopped, welded, hung ropes from the tree in his front lawn and swapped engines, and ended up with a very presentable truck, which he took to Moab and wheeled. He moved out there and worked on it in the street, and still wheeled it on weekends. Guys like that impress me more than the one who just write a check, buy the clothes at Orvis to look the part, and never knew the fun of the trip.

[alaskajosh]

... but at what point do you say 'more than it's worth' ?

This question is answered very simply. An object is priced "more than it's worth" when it doesn't sell. If it sells, at any price, that's what it was worth (to that buyer anyway). Such is the beauty of trade.

As far as griping about what swanky neighborhood (whoops, neighbourhood) it goes to.. it's none of our business who wants to own/display one of these icons. It's of no concern to us what surface their new prize is driven on or whether it's ever driven at all.

I'm just tickled that wealthy people are willing to be so sloppy with their money! As long as they remain so, tradesmen like me will remain employed. When they start saying, "$250K is more than a kitchen remodel is worth!" I'll be filling out a Wal-Mart application and will no longer be able to afford a LR hobby car.

On a whole, this thing is good for the LR community at all levels.

[txffjim]

On the upside to all of this - the wife likes the green 109 so much she said " i would drive that to work" hmmm... gotta search classifieds.