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You bring up some good points Scott. We all have wish list, want lists, and needs lists, based on our own individual values, and pocket books. But to say it's a "rip off", when someone steps up and upgrades his vehicle, to suit their own needs, is not right, just insulting. Would it be any better to spend $10k for a HS2.8 TGV base conversion kit, then need to upgrade the drive train to cope with the extra power? To some it would, and myself personally,not. That's my opinion, and would simply say, great engine, not on my list. Land Rovers are about individuality, improvising, and using whats available to you to make them work best for our needs. You want a $60k+ pretty truck to go to the mall, looks nice, only have $2k to make a runner, great job. Point being, neither owner is smarter, or more ignorant, just two people doing what they want. The world would be awfully boring with 1 Land Rover for all, based on 1 person's opinion.
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You are still pushing around a ~5,000lb + truck with a small displacement overworked 4 cylinder. A 2.8 may have more capacity vs. the 2.25 but it is creating that via more fuel and air consumption. You still don't have a crossflow head or any other advances that will make a vast improvement in the engine's efficiency. Look at your torque to weight ratio and consider the drag coefficient of a LR is ~.59 and frontal area is ~37ft2. The only way you are going to get greatly different fuel consumption is with a more modern engine design or a diesel. What I am saying is don't expect any miracles.
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As for nice shiny galvanized frames- they aren't just for that sexy shine, in the rust belt it is $ well spent
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5000#? Well, I guess my truck diet works.
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Originally I was going to swap a diesel, until this engine popped up on Ebay. It was mentioned earlier that the 2.8 is only good for ease of swapping. The 200Tdi requires only a few mods for the intercooler, and fuel delivery, no biggie.I would have to learn all I can, and wrench a lot before i leave to be self sufficient with any Tdi, which have taken away much time that could have been used in vehicle preparation. Now I have an engine optimized to the best standards possible, without negatively sacrificing reliability, that I can repair myself. Perfect for my needs. And bringing up the argument that its too this, or too that, is just opinions. How did countless travelers ever survive, or complete a trip with a, gulp, stock grossly under powered, inefficient engine, impossible right? Its not all about the engine, as there are more than one to choose, but the whole package we are able to put together. My ambulance weighted at Tillbury with a quarter tank was 1603k, light starting point. I do intend to keep it as light as possible, and travel light. As for the aerodynamics, my interior has roughly an extra 35sq ft over stock roofs, and how do you think I will compare with a 110 that needs a full roof rack, and RTT. Not to mention the COG and handling advantage I will end up with. My guess, a tad better, which I will require less power to to maintain the same speed, with better economy. There is a pattern here in the specs, and add them all together, I think I will end up with something just a little better in the end. That is exactly what this engine is, a little better breathing, a little extra displacement etc...I am not building this for anyone except my son, and I, based on what we are best able to put together for us. Modern engines are not all gems, some dogs have ECU's. I never said it will get 30 mpg, and climb K2 in third gear, or that I need that, only it will suit my needs, nothing more. BTW, I don't recommend this engine for you, and hope that your choice suit your needs. Merry Christmas all.
Cheers,
GregComment
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1965 109 2door hardtop (restored years ago)
1971 88 (restored and as new)
1967 88 (the next project)Comment
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Guess it depends on what is being done. Local race shop to me will lighten a flywheel for $90, do a 3 angle valve job with cleaning, and head planing as necesary, and valve seals on an 8v head as needed for $200. Not sure what they charge for measure/inspect the cylinder bores, boring, and honing on a 4 cylinder but I doubt its much more than $500 - $750. So for about $1000 you should be able to get all the basic machine shop work done. Now this bill will of course go exponential if you get into balancing, blue printing, crank grinding, knifing, extrude honing, titanium rods, forged pistons, double valve springs, etc etc....but then again this is a rover engine...you would have to be rather foolish to dump that much work into a 2.25 motor (or really friggin obsessed
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The TDi is simple, and the learning curve isn't steep. It wouldn't require a lot of work to get to know it well enough for such a journey. There is always the 2.5 and 200Di too if you want added simplicity. There are other even better choices out there but I assume you want to stay with the Rover part's box for simplicities sake.
They drove slow used a lot of gas and eventually got there, the same thing you are going to do. The 2.25 and its derivatives are a slow, thirsty and overworked but pretty reliable series of engines. At low speeds the 4 cylinder gas engine's thirst for fuel can be alarming. Don't discount all the "opinions" you find here, many of them are a result of genuine first hand experience over the decades with these things. Everybody has an opinion but some of them are very well informed and the result of years practical knowledge.
They usually a penalty of at least 2-3MPG with a V8 powered Rover with a roof rack, it is likely you'll see the same. Then again it depends how fast you travel too. The physics of the matter is just one of those things you can't escape. Naturally the slower you go the less and less this has an impact.
1603KG/3530 Lbs for a starting point is pretty light, ask around for the average expedition weight of these trucks. Post here what it weighs when you are fully kitted out for this adventure.
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I did look at many options, just don't have your same opinions. Better choices for who? Are you driving this vehicle? What am I only supposed to use what you want me to use. What is the big issue, I get it, you don't like the engine, so don't buy one. But to say I am wrong in my choice is just ignorant. That is your opinion, nothing more. I don't need a whole lot of extra power, as it will not be loaded anywhere close to max weight. I have a somewhat unique vehicle, and am taking advantage of that fact. I am not using it for a rock crawler, just a long trip south, off the beaten track sometimes. So my choice will suit me just fine. End of story. If it bugs you that much, buy it and lets see what you will do, if anything.Then we can start a new thread, and I will tell you why your choices are all wrong. The reason I brought up the extra interior capacity, is because it will allow me to NOT have a roof rack, and it is a sleep in conversion. Yes you have a formula for drag on the hi top roof, but it is a lot more aero than a loaded roof rack, with a RTT. Or is that wrong too? I must have a roof top tent? I will have a fridge, it that cool? Here's a great formula: I bought it+ My choices+ My cash+ My build= My Land Rover The math does not lie. I like friendly banter, it's entertaining, but insisting that you alone know all, is just getting boring.
Cheers
GregComment
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Several race shops around the Midwest. And that is a la cart service with full balancing/blue printing.
Guess I am lucky
or at least not getting ripped off...
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x2. Basic Machine work, a basic balance and some porting isn't even close to half of what the total cost of an ACR or Turner delevered is and offers the same performance, with the added benefit of supporitng local craftsman...Guess it depends on what is being done. Local race shop to me will lighten a flywheel for $90, do a 3 angle valve job with cleaning, and head planing as necesary, and valve seals on an 8v head as needed for $200. Not sure what they charge for measure/inspect the cylinder bores, boring, and honing on a 4 cylinder but I doubt its much more than $500 - $750. So for about $1000 you should be able to get all the basic machine shop work done. Now this bill will of course go exponential if you get into balancing, blue printing, crank grinding, knifing, extrude honing, titanium rods, forged pistons, double valve springs, etc etc....but then again this is a rover engine...you would have to be rather foolish to dump that much work into a 2.25 motor (or really friggin obsessed ).Comment
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Sorry you have gotten your panties all in a twist. Yes it is your truck and you are free to do what you want with it. All I am trying to tell you is that your expectations are unrealistic. BTDT. You are entitled to your $, your truck, and your obviously uninformed opinion but not your personal version of physics.
What the hell do we know though? feel free to prove us wrong.Comment
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gchinsr, I don't recall if you said where you and your son plan on going, in South America. It would appear from your comments that you've given some thought to the trip, but, from my perspective, you've overlooked some points in favor of assuming the best. While a Land Rover may be a good platform for the typ of trip you're planning, there are Land Rovers, and there are Land Rovers. It's certainly never been considered a 'one size fits all", evidenced by the vast array of configurations.
Having a newish engine does not guarentee a trouble free trip, so, will every potential problem have a fix waiting for you at the next town? Are the componants unique to the ACR petrol engine available everywhere? There aren't as many Land Rovers running around S. America, like there used to be. You may find a dealership willing to help out, but willing and able differ vastly from country to country.
Have you considered that fuel costs, with the exception of Ecuador and Venezuela, range from 10% more than US, to 70% more. Couple that with a range of less than half of a diesel vehicle of equal tankage, you may well find yourself planning your trip around fuel stops. I can't claim experience with an ACR engine, but having had more than 3 dozen Land Rovers of varying engines and configurations over 45 years, I think you're overly optimistic with your fuel consumption figures. Driving down there simply isn't like any, ANY parts of the US mainland. Also, my Defender 110, weighing half again as my 88, gets 25% better milage.
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Hi Terry
The long stroke crank is from the Ford truck engines manufactured in South America, the rest is all land Rover. What spares I don't have on hand, my family can ship me spares from home. What isn't clear to all, is after this trip, it will be stripped out, and be a run around for fun truck, and that is why I am happy to have it a petrol. I have always been a petrol head, and like the way a petrol responds, and drives. I have nothing against diesels, just does not fit my needs here. Yes the fuel cost are more,the range is less, but that is fine, and not an issue. I was only wanting another 25hp over stock, with a little more torque to be happy honestly, so this engine exceeds my expectations. I have just bought a lifting roof for a 110 in the UK, and will build a 110 with a diesel for this roof. That one will be a dedicated camping truck, built with different parameters, and intended usage.I hope this clears up why I chose the 2.8 ACR lump, and not a TDiComment
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