Just bought some new aluminum wing fenders--some questions & body panel questions

[knac1234]

Hello all,

After clocking around 2500 miles on the S3 since October, I am really enjoying driving it daily (almost!). I am kicking around doing some light cosmetic resto in the summer, and had heard that the aluminum wing panels are very difficult to get now that the supplier is out of business.

So, by luck and some exhaustive calling around all of North America, I bought the last pair of aluminum wing panels in the US (Note.....PM me if you want to know where a couple of other pairs are!).

Question: I want to use stainless hardware when I get round to bolting the new ones on. Does RN or anyone else carry that, or if I can get it from a hardware shop, what length and thread should I get (want the hardware before I pull the panels off)??

Also, regarding door bottoms and door tops, are the aftermarket ones that RN sell (or others sell) identical to the factory ones? Can I transfer the glass and stuff out of my door top into one of these new frames??

I have a 72 Series III NAS

Cheers,
Julian

[Terrys]

Julian, Don't waste your money on stainless fastenerss for the wing skins. Go to your local Fastenal and buy a bag of 1/4-28 3/4" long, and a bag of locks and nuts.
For all practical purposes the replacement door tops are ok, and yes, you can use your glass. Don't know much about their door bottoms.

[SafeAirOne]

Fastenal and K.L. Jack sell stainless stuff by the 50 and 100 count bag/box.

Note that you'll want to use a different stainless alloys for the nut and the bolt to prevent galling and subsequent seizure of the fasteners during installation and removal.

Not sure about the fasteners that hold the outer wing panel onto the inner wing, but I use 1/4-20 x 3/4" stainless bolts on all the other places (I don't use the fine-thread 1/4-28 because: 1. I'm lazy and I don't want to be there all day removing the fasteners, and 2. I can't think of anything on the Rover that is held together by 1/4" bolts/nuts that requires the increased clamping force that the fine-thread fasteners are capable of).

Be warned that folks may chastise you for using stainless hardware on aluminum because it is somewhat more reactive than the original steel fasteners. It may mean the difference between the surrounding aluminum corroding through in 32 years instead of 34 years, so take it for whatever it's worth...

[TedW]

Note that you'll want to use a different stainless alloys for the nut and the bolt to prevent galling and subsequent seizure of the fasteners during installation and removal.

Be warned that folks may chastise you for using stainless hardware on aluminum because it is somewhat more reactive than the original steel fasteners. It may mean the difference between it corroding through in 32 years instead of 34 years, so take it for whatever it's worth...

Couple things (Just MHO):

Don't worry about galling unless you're dealing with a big honkin' nut & bolt, like the ones securing the windscreen, and lotsa tork. With smaller stuff it's no big deal. Even then, just use a little lube and you're good to go.

Regarding corrosion: I've had my truck for 20 years; it had lots of corrosion in the aluminum from the original hardware.

I immediately began replacing all the hardware with stainless, and have seen no significant aluminum corrosion around any of the stainless hardware. And this truck is a year-round driver in Maine (mucho salt).

I understand the nobility scale and all that, but my experience doesn't bear out that stainless corrodes the birmabright faster than mild steel does.

Another big benefit to stainless: the nuts & bolts don't rust together into a solid mass.

[rosims]

Everything rusts in the south, so I'm used to it. I don't think I've ever took something old apart and not broke off bolts. I just use course thread bolts and anti-seize everything. Never had a problem.

[SafeAirOne]

Don't worry about galling unless you're dealing with a big honkin' nut & bolt, like the
ones securing the windscreen, and lotsa tork. With smaller stuff it's no big deal.

Unfortunately, my experiences with same-alloy 1/4-20 stainless nuts and bolts from Fastenall wouldn't agree with that.

One of these days I'm going to get rid of those remaining #%@&* 316 stainless nuts that I keep grabbing instead of the 18-8 nuts...

[Pete]

stainless

I would have to agree. If going stainless use never sieze no matter what size you are installing.
Also the fabricator who just built two stainless gas tanks for me reminded me several times to use never sieze or pepto bismal if I am to use stainless screws for the pickup tube and sending unit.

Pete

[TedW]

I would have to agree. If going stainless use never sieze no matter what size you are installing.
Also the fabricator who just built two stainless gas tanks for me reminded me several times to use never sieze or pepto bismal if I am to use stainless screws for the pickup tube and sending unit.

Pete

Interesting! A big take-away here (I think) is to use anti-sieze on all threads first. Good advice ragardless of the hardware used.

BTW: Pete sent me pics of his new stainless tanks: Pure Rover p0rn.....

[Terrys]

Unfortunately, my experiences with same-alloy 1/4-20 stainless nuts and bolts from Fastenall wouldn't agree with that.

One of these days I'm going to get rid of those remaining #%@&* 316 stainless nuts that I keep grabbing instead of the 18-8 nuts...

Both 304 and 316 are 18-8. Only difference, aside from the physical properties (UTS, Y, E) is that 316 has 2-3% Molybdenum.
My experience is that the finer the thread, the less likely it will gall. 316 is less likely to gall than 304 because of the slightly higher yield strength. Stainless hardware has considerably less strength than the equivalent sized carbon steel fastener, but certainly not an issue with wing skins.

[gudjeon]

Its a bit more work but I paints cleaned fasteners with a cold Galvanized spray paint, then apply some copper grease. They never have to stay put long enough before you have to work on it again for seizure/corrosion to be an issue.

[siii8873]

besides strength, fine threads are less likely to come off due to vibration. Not that this would be an issue with wing panels either.

[knac1234]

Thanks for all the tips on hardware.

I actually was thinking Fastenal....I bought tons of stainless off them as most things on my Hillman Imp resto were done in stainless, and they carried all the fine thread stuff that the car was basically entirely built from.

This Rover will be-and is-a driver.....it will be less so in the summer as that's when the other Brit stuff comes out of hibernation, but definitely in the winter. So, thought stainless would rust less easily....and yes, I have a big bottle of anti-seize stuff left over from the Imp resto!

So......doors and tops....Terry says the replacement tops are good.....any bottom info? Are there subtle differences visually, or are they identical and just bolt on?

Regards,
Julian

[TedW]

So......doors and tops....Terry says the replacement tops are good.....any bottom info? Are there subtle differences visually, or are they identical and just bolt on?

Regards,
Julian

I've dealt with a number of replacement door bottoms from various sources, and have found them to all be quite similar (but for all I know they all came from the same aftermarket supplier).

The biggest difference from Genuine that I see is that the housing for the door latch on the replacements is pop riveted on, vs. the originals (at least my originals) which used hammer rivets.

[knac1234]

Ted,

Thanks....that's the insight I was looking for. I like originality, but this is a vehicle that will continue to be constantly exposed to the elements, and I cannot justify (or afford) an insane quest for perfection on it knowing that fact (as opposed to the Imp where I went somewhat crazy, but the car will be driven weekends at best during the summer only).

I guess I am weighing media blasting the surface rust off my original doors (on the sides) and fixing most of the dings (again not to perfection) as opposed to just bolting on a clean dead straight brand new door.

Am leaning toward the new door....just paint and go.

Julian

[TedW]

Ted,

Thanks....that's the insight I was looking for. I like originality, but this is a vehicle that will continue to be constantly exposed to the elements, and I cannot justify (or afford) an insane quest for perfection on it knowing that fact (as opposed to the Imp where I went somewhat crazy, but the car will be driven weekends at best during the summer only).

I guess I am weighing media blasting the surface rust off my original doors (on the sides) and fixing most of the dings (again not to perfection) as opposed to just bolting on a clean dead straight brand new door.

Am leaning toward the new door....just paint and go.

Julian

Julian: It would be quick and simple to remove the pop rivets and install hammer rivets. Of course, you literally have to be a rivet counter to notice! I noticed them after I was all done installing / painting, and it has been nagging me ever since...........

Some advice: If you do buy new doors, after you paint (and before you install) I suggest that you drill some small holes in the frame and rustprooof the insides of the frame - I got a bunch of rustproofing in there and sloshed it around good. One less thing to worry about down the road.