Ford 289 in a 109. One cylinder gone. Back to 2.25?

[1967IPA]

Upon removing the final spark plug for re-fitment, I discovered - after much consternation - a cylinder packed with crud. Rust, mineral deposits, oil - you name it. I am thinking this is an overall indication of the internal condition of the motor. I planned on replacing all of the peripherals - carb/water pump/starter/fluids etc. on the 289 and giving it a "go"
Now, I am thinking about picking up a rebuilt long block 289 for $400 or whatever the locals are asking here in LA - but thought it could be an opportunity to get back a bit of originality from the PO swap-happy ways. 2.25 petrol? Thoughts?
I know I'd have to get motor mounts welded on - not too big of a deal cosidering the rest of the driveline was never upgraded/strengthened.

[Apis Mellifera]

I'd like to see photos of the conversion. Was the gearbox and transfer case from the Rover retained?

That said, you could get a complete 302 for a few hundred. If you decide to go back to the 2.25, I'd be interested in the conversion pieces.

[1967IPA]

The original gearbox and transfer cases are intact and working OK, apparently. Thanks to the stock 2 barrel carb and a restricted gas pedal articulation. I'll post some images tomorrow.

[Apis Mellifera]

That's what I thought (and was hoping for). I have a 302 I was planning to put in my MGB, but if there's an easy conversion out there, my SIII could use one as well.

[O'Brien]

hey Michael!

cleanse your mind of going to the 2.25. even with your overdrive you're not going to enjoy driving your 109 around LA if you can't drag it up to 60mph. your wagon would have had the 2.6 6cyl in it originally, but good luck sourcing one of those! You've already got the adapter for the ford motor on your bellhousing, so you should probably stick with that. find a nice 289 or 302 off craigslist and go to town. otherwise, if you're thinking about a motor swap, might as well go for a 200 or 300 Tdi. you've got the advantage of the 6cyl firewall which provides a bunch more room. just food for thought! also, let me know if you're around sometime this week, would be great to cruise over and have a couple cold ones and talk rovers!

[Donnie]

Upon removing the final spark plug for re-fitment, I discovered - after much consternation - a cylinder packed with crud. Rust, mineral deposits, oil - you name it. I am thinking this is an overall indication of the internal condition of the motor. I planned on replacing all of the peripherals - carb/water pump/starter/fluids etc. on the 289 and giving it a "go"
Now, I am thinking about picking up a rebuilt long block 289 for $400 or whatever the locals are asking here in LA - but thought it could be an opportunity to get back a bit of originality from the PO swap-happy ways. 2.25 petrol? Thoughts?
I know I'd have to get motor mounts welded on - not too big of a deal cosidering the rest of the driveline was never upgraded/strengthened.

I have a 302 in one of the trucks that I was trying to sell a while back...I stopped running it because of a bad frame.. It was done by a pro shop in State College, Pa...no change was spared...It was the sweetest running Rover that I have..I encourage you to find another 302 & go with that...If you drive it with moderate concern for the drive train it will be a pleasure to drive.. Mine was..If you are looking to off road & rock climb with it it will break parts..Driven like you love it, It will last for years. Plus 302 parts are CHEAP & they are easy to work on...The weak link in the 302 is the lower end...They need REGULAR on time oel changes..& the engine will outlast your stock frame.Donnie

[TeriAnn]

Timm Cooper dropped a 302 into my 109 back in 1999 and I've never looked back and never got nostalgic for the old 2.25L boat anchor.

But my conversion is very different from yours. It includes an American light truck gearbox designed to handle the power of my 302 and more. A Land Rover transfercase with Ashcroft high ratio kit to provide better highway cruise RPM without loosing low range ratios. A Salisbury rear end for much needed additional strength (Salisburys were stock fitment to SIII 109s and is a straight bolt on upgrade, axle assembly + rear drive shaft).

It would be real hard not to break gear boxes and rear axles with your current set up, even detuned like it is.

Returned to stock 2.6L six or with a 2.25L swap you will have a comfortable highway cruise of about 50-55 MPH and would need long freeway on ramps unless traffic is slow. Fuel mileage would be about the same.

Option #1. Find a 2.6L petrol six or a Rover 3L petrol six and bring the truck back to stock. Pro, if you can find an engine it is likely the easiest swap and the six gives you noticeably more power than the 2.25L petrol. Con: The engines are hard to find, Many parts are no longer in production, so are hard to find and expensive and adjusting the exhaust valves are a pain but not doing it results in burnt exhaust valves.

Option #2 Swap in a 2.25L petrol engine which is your lowest power option. The four cylinder & six cylinder use different bell housings which are integral to the gearbox. So you may need to either replace your gearbox or rebuild it with a different bell housing. Pros: You end up with a LR engine that will not overtax your drive train and the 2.25L is more common than the 2.6L engine. Cons: Least power. Factory parts are being discontinued and many aftermarket replacements are of questionable service life. Parts are expensive and getting more so.

Option #3 Replace the existing engine with a rebuild, detune it as best you can and restrict it to partial throttle opening. Pros: easiest cheapest fix, parts are easy to find & cheap. Cons: Kind of like hitching a hobbled horse to a buggy. Sometimes you might be tempted to lessen the hobbles or it might get away from you breaking the gearbox, rear axle & rear diff carrier.

Option #4 Since your truck has a six cylinder engine bay, replace the engine with an early small displacement Chevy in-line six. (194, 230 or 250 Cu In versions). the 292 version is a bit too powerful for the stock drive train. The Chevy 6 is just a tad long and you should go with an aluminum cross flow radiator sitting on top of the front cross member. Use an electric pusher fan. You will likely need to hunt for a Scotty's adapter. With the 292 or the 250 version and a lead foot you would want to upgrade the gearbox and rear end. Pros: plenty of power to push your truck around in traffic. With higher gearing a good highway cruiser. The smaller versions of this engine family won't overtax your drive train as much but you still have to have a gentle accelerator foot. CONs: It is easier to brake drive train parts. Done right you should upgrade to a beefier gearbox and rear end. These engines are about 50 years old and it could be that parts may be getting harder to find.

Option #5 Get yourself a 5.0L V8 and do the conversion right. A 5.0 because it has a roller cam and today's oils are not friendly to flat tappet cams. Use a Ford version of one of the strong light truck gearboxes This will allow you to use off the shelf bell housing and clutch. You will need to adapt the throw out bearing fork to allow the Series slave cylinder to push it. Get the appropriate adapter to fit the LR transfercase to the gearbox. Bolt on a Salisbury (stock SIII 109) rear end on the truck, and probably have a custom rear propshaft made for the actual transfercase to rear end distance.

For gearing you have 3 good choices: Swap the stock Series 4.7:1 ring and pinion gears with early coiler 3.54:1 R&P. This will give you good highway gearing but you will loose a lot of low range capability for the trail. Or Add an Ashcroft high ratio kit to the transfercase (These days you usually by a complete converted transfercase with is bolt on). This gives you very close to the same highway gearing as the 3.54 R&P but leaves your low range the same. OR buy a Santana or Santana clone overdrive and add it to the stock transfercase and end up with basically a 5 speed gearbox. The Santana's are known to be able to stand up to the more powerful small block V8s.

Pros: You can do the speed limit uphill, shorter on ramps are no problem, the engine weight is about the same as a 2.25L engine so no suspension worries, and the drive train is beefy enough to handle the engine so the rig is a LOT more dependable and trouble free.

Cons: Purists will put your truck down as not being a real Land Rover.

Oh and you can easily convert either the Chevy six or a V8 conversion to power steering and get rid of the steering box sitting next to the side of the engine. A Range Rover P38 steering box out of a wrecking yard is the current hot ticket.

There are other conversions you can make but these are the more common paths to take.

[1967IPA]

Thanks for all the replies - I've enjoyed reading all responses and will make a decision soon on which route to take and how much $$ to commit. I've been convinced not to go back to the 2.25L...permanently. I do value ths forum for just this reason. Educated, yet enthusiastic members. Makes me value the Rover community that much more. I've been an auto enthusiast for a bit now, through various (unnamed!) makes/models/years - yet I find the Rover community chock full of splendid characters.
-Michael

[Cutter]

I run a 2.6, the added power is nice but limited, and it so damn thirsty. I can cruise at 60- 65 easily on flats with a high output ratio, but it drops to 50 on an extended climb. Mind you this is the Euro spec engine so the NADA is better on the highway. I would honestly recommend against a 2.6 if you have to repower, there are better options.

[mongoswede]

other motors that have caught my interest as possibilities pending research:

GM 4.3 or 3.8 V6
Merc OM316 (think thats the one) 5 cylinder turbo diesel
4bt, 6bt

[TeriAnn]

other motors that have caught my interest as possibilities pending research:

GM 4.3 or 3.8 V6
Merc OM316 (think thats the one) 5 cylinder turbo diesel

The 4 cylinder version used in the Mercedes 240D, OM616 is rated at early- 65 HP @4200, late- 72 HP @4400, 97 lbft @ 2400 RPM. The late version will provide about the same power as a stock 2.25L petrol engine. SeriesTrek used to make an adapter for this engine to LR bell housing. I have no idea how many were ever made.

The OM617, 3L diesel was rated 123 HP @ 4350 and after Aug 1983 the power was bumped slightly to 125 HP. Torque was 170 lb/ft @ 2400 RPM.

There is a step by step buildup thread at: http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...tion-rig-build

4bt, 6bt

ISUZU 4bd1 maybe?? It was used in some Australian army Land Rovers prior to 1994.

The Cummins six is a big heavy motor that most people consider too heavy for a Series suspension. I know one person in Canada who has done it though.

[greenmeanie]

[QUOTE=TeriAnn;73467]&nbsp;</P>
<P>Option #4 Since your truck has a six cylinder engine bay, replace the engine with an early small displacement Chevy in-line six. (194, 230 or 250 Cu In versions). the 292 version is a bit too powerful for the stock drive train. The Chevy 6 is just a tad long and you should go with an aluminum cross flow radiator sitting on top of the front cross member. Use an electric pusher fan. You will likely need to hunt for a <A href="http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/Scotty%20Conversions.htm" target=_blank>Scotty's adapter</A>. With the 292 or the 250 version and a lead foot you would want to upgrade the gearbox and rear end. Pros: plenty of power to push your truck around in traffic. With higher gearing a good highway cruiser. The smaller versions of this engine family won't overtax your drive train as much but you still have to have a gentle accelerator foot. CONs: It is easier to brake drive train parts. Done right you should upgrade to a beefier gearbox and rear end. These engines are about 50 years old and it could be that parts may be getting harder to find.</P>
<P>&nbsp;.[/QUOTE

To correct TAW parts for Chevy 6s are still commonly available. You can even buy new long and short blocks. Speed parts are available but take more research and hunting down. It takes a lot more money to build a hot inline 6 than a V8 purely due to limited suppliers. For a 109, unless you are a bit daft, a stock 250 or 292 with a decent carb on it should have all the power you need.

[TeriAnn]

To correct TAW parts for Chevy 6s are still commonly available. You can even buy new long and short blocks. Speed parts are available but take more research and hunting down.

Thanks for adding that. I had no idea what the current state of parts for a 50ish year old Chevy in-line six engine.

It takes a lot more money to build a hot inline 6 than a V8 purely due to limited suppliers. For a 109, unless you are a bit daft, a stock 250 or 292 with a decent carb on it should have all the power you need.

My Land Rover mentor who is responsible for at least 80% of everything I think I know about Land Rovers and turning a wrench was James "Scotty" Howett who developed the "Scotty Conversion", manufactured and distributed Scotty adapters. Scotty always told customers not to use the 292 version of the engine because it was too powerful for the Land Rover gearbox to reliably stand up to. He recommended the Chevy 250 as the largest member of the family for his conversion.

Also to avoid mid '70's and newer cylinder heads. During that time the factory recast the heads with different water passages so they would run hotter. It is a SMOG emissions thing that tended to cause converted LRs to overheat on summer desert runs.

He recommended the four cylinder "Iron Duke" engine for 88 conversions and the 250 or smaller in-line six for 109 conversions. Later in life, his early 80's, he discovered the Mercruiser marine engine family of larger 4 cylinder engines and recommended Mercruiser converted to automotive use as the engine of choice to use with his conversion in both 88s and 109s.

[martindktm]

Do you know Teriann if the iron duke is lighter than the 2.25 Rover?

[TeriAnn]

Do you know Teriann if the iron duke is lighter than the 2.25 Rover?

Sorry I do not. I do know that GM made a lot of different four cylinder engines and all were more powerful than the 2.25L petrol engine. But you need to be careful with some of the older ones because unique parts have gone NLA.

What Scotty referred to as the Iron Duke was basically the in-line six minus 2 cylinders and shared parts with the six cylinder models. Sorry I don't know which vehicles that were sold with.

I was mostly interested in how to fix my truck. When I visited we would start out with tea and biscuits and chat. Then after a few cups go out to the shop where Jim explained what was wrong with my truck this time and how to fix it. He was very good at teaching me. In the beginning, he had to make sure I know how the tools worked and that I know which ones to buy.