clutch problems

[deezgunz]

hello to all...I'm having clutch problems and would appreciate any input. I searched various rover sites which have been helpful however, I am now stumped.
vehicle:
83 SIII ex-mod 24v FFR 5-bearing engine petrol

problem:
hard shifting eventually no shifting at all. start in neutral and jam it into either 1st or 3rd to move or start in first and jam it into high range. sometimes the truck will lurch forward in neutral.

diagnosis:
clutch jutter due to rear oil seal leak, friction plate worn.

action:
cleaned up housing, replaced clutch friction plate, pressure plate, bushing, throw-out bearing w/collar, plastic staple, push rod retainer (all recommended replacements). here is a pic of the worn plate. the loose springs were jingling in the flywheel housing. not a huge amount of oil contamination, flywheel housing dirty with oil gunk. scary for sure! replaced rear oil and cork t seals.

decided to replace hydraulics, master, flex, slave. tested master by carefully crimping the flex hose at the master. the result was a hard pedal...no movement...good to go. no leaks in any of the lines or at slave. all hydraulics test good to go.

The problem still persists. Now for speculation:
Is the friction plate not releasing from the flywheel thereby not allowing the vehicle to properly shift gears? If so, even with proper hydraulics, is the push rod not depressing enough to disengage the flywheel? The clutch pedal seems to be doing its job. here is a vid of the clutch being depressed as viewed through the bell housing window
View My Video

any help is appreciated!

[jopa]

clutch judder

Did you resurface the flywheel?...J

[I Leak Oil]

Friction plate installed facing the right way?

[deezgunz]

update

8/31. I brewed a cup of Earl Grey and decided to tinker with the rover. My intent was to put it in gear, start it up and see if it was still lurching in gear either in 1st or reverse.

I performed a gravity bleed and and few bubbles came out and I adjusted the clutch lock nut (the adjustment on the master) virtually to the end of the rod.

I started in 1 high, clutch depressed and foot on brake and to my surprise it did not lurch forward. I turned it off and started it in neutral, both the transmission and h/l range. I expected it not to shift at all but with a slight grind it went into reverse. Shifting to 1st was more difficult but I was able to shift from 1st to 2nd, letting up on the clutch to test wether or not if it was properly engaging and disengaging. It was functioning as it should albeit the stiff shifting.

I suspect the following:

I performed an inadequate bleed and the master is bad.

To those who asked if I put the friction plate on correctly I believe I did. If it was installed incorrectly wouldn't it not work at all?

I replaced the Girling with a Bearmach master. Do you think this is an inferior master?

Thanks to all...

This is Jenny, high maintenance and expensive...

[SafeAirOne]

Hmm...If I'm reading it right, you're at the end of the MC adjustment range with a brand new MC, slave and friction disk?

That doesn't sound right to me.

Don't recall if it was a Bearmach slave I put in, but I got it from a supplier of Bearmach parts. It lasted 2 weeks. On the other hand, the replacement they sent me has lasted for 6 years so far.

[LaneRover]

In many ways it doesn't matter how far you adjust the adjuster because the hydraulic system tends to just 're-set' itself to the adjusted length.

There is a chance that some of the pins and clutch actuating rods are a bit worn and allow too much movement.

Brent

[I Leak Oil]

Not much to go wrong with the mechanical end of the clutch fork on a SIII, still possible I guess though. Still sounds like something isn't installed right or adjustment of the master or slave me.

[deezgunz]

update

9/5 update:

I was able to confirm the friction plate/pressure plate were installed correctly through the bell housing viewing window as well as rechecking the hydraulics. All checked out ok.


I decided to remove the trans again to rule out everything. Once again everything was properly installed however the bushing was totally obliterated.

Mating the trans up to the flywheel took some effort which may have banged on the bushing but I don't think it was enough to obliterate it. I ran the engine for about 45 minutes total when testing the clutch prior to the last trans removal.

Any ideas about what caused this?

The fork, bearing, etc. were all ok however the flimsy plastic staple had fallen off.
Question: Does the throwout bearing rest against the pressure plate at all times? If so the plastic staple is kind of useless. Any thoughts on this?

[rwollschlager]

IIRC the plastic stable just holds the throwout bearing in place during instillation, I can't imagine it staying in place after using the vehicle.
How is your front input shaft? pitted with rust or wobbly? either one of those would cause excessive wear of the brass bushing, but neither of those sound like the case here.

Make sure when your mating the engine and the transmission up that the input shaft slides nicely into that bushing and then the bolts are tightened. Getting it "close" and then mashing down the nuts with lots of brute force could cause harm to the bushing.

-Rob

[deezgunz]

clutch

update 9/12:
I replaced the bushing and reinstalled the transmission. Everything went together smoothly with the aid of 2 transmission jacks and the help of a friend. In my experience, mating up the transmission is a two man job with transmission jacks on the rear and front of the transmission. The use of wookie strength and a scissor jack is NOT the way to mate the trans to the engine.

The truck is shifting the better. There is a whirling noise coming from the throwout bearing. I believe the sound is the bearing not withdrawing from the pressure plate, but this will disappear once I properly adjust the pedal. The plastic staple connects the bearing to the fork which allows the bearing to withdraw from the pressure plate. The design is flimsy but necessary.