1984 Defender 110 200tdi RHD

[Jeep Rescue]

Sold on Ebay for $19k. Too bad he didn't take my offer of $20k....

[Carpe]

Yah, but he was selling it as a 1980/1983 on ebay. DUBIOUS, man...just DUBIOUS! Apparently it was made over the course of 3 years now, but was really manufactured in 1983, because it was sold in 1984, because ebay won't take VIN numbers, because Margaret Thatcher, er, I mean, no...must have been Lec Walesa; DANG, that couldn't be right...Global warming?

YOU DON'T WANT THAT TRUCK. If you had an accident in it and say...killed someone...they would assess the damage to your car. At that point, a good lawyer would easily figure out that it was of questionable legality for you to have it in the first place and go straight to your insurance company, grab them / you by your nuts and place them in a very expensive and very uncomfortable vice. I would; and I guarantee I would make a lot of money for myself and my client in damages over your negligence. You don't want that. I wouldn't want it happening to me.

This is why it takes months of research to get the right truck. There is some turd bag trying to sell a non-NAS 1993 Defender 110 on ebay right now who will not, after some encouragement, make any statement in his advert that it will take an additional $15k to federalize it before it is legal to import into the US. That sin of omission is unfortunate. Someone is going to buy it thinking they are getting a sneaky deal / "great find" and realize that they will need to pay double to get their new sneaky deal legal in the US. Guys that can afford to pay for that get the real deal - the NAS 110's. Guys that don't know any better get to place a quick advert in the land rover exchange to try and unload it before storage fees eat their lunch (since they can't get it across the border - as they are not registered importers who can guarantee federalization). That seller is a douche.

There is no replacement for due diligence in this hobby. If there are lots of screw-ups that diminish the integrity of the import process, I can only imagine that it will become more expensive for us all. The best bet you have at the moment is a fellow by the name of Julian Koeting over in the UK (find him on http://www.landroverexchange.com - the old LRX). You can get a good 1983 truck over here for under $20k USD and possibly get one with a 200tdi / 300tdi. In my opinion, that's a much more sound investment of your LR dollars - one that stands less risk of bringing you harm should the unforseen happen at customs, the DMV / DOT inspection for titling / registering, or, God forbid, at the investigation following an accident.

[Terrys]

Chris, Have you figured out who Oswald really worked for? Ruby, Roswell ?

Not everything is a conspiracy.

While the dissapointment may be crushing to the non believers, did you ever consider how many 110s came into this country leagally, at the ripe young age of 5 years?
You seem to have scanned most of the NHTSA regs, but you forget (or didn't know) that the current 25 year rule replaced the old FIVE year rule not so long ago.

[Carpe]

Chris, Have you figured out who Oswald really worked for? Ruby, Roswell ?

Not everything is a conspiracy.

While the dissapointment may be crushing to the non believers, did you ever consider how many 110s came into this country leagally, at the ripe young age of 5 years?
You seem to have scanned most of the NHTSA regs, but you forget (or didn't know) that the current 25 year rule replaced the old FIVE year rule not so long ago.

Poor. Don't take pot shots or try to belittle me, Terry. That condescending polemic has no place here. First, the problem I have with the rover in this thread is that it has been billed as a 1984, a 1983 and a 1980. If (and I'll reserve my guess on this) it was brought in under the FIVE (capital letters and bold font seems to mean something) year rule not so long ago, just say that up front. Don't hem and haw around that it's a 1984, but really a 1983, but ebay won't take VIN numbers... If it's not legal yet, say that too, "this truck will have to wait until next year to be registered legally in the US."

Second, the truck I talked about on ebay is in Vancouver and clearly doesn't fall under the aforementioned FIVE year program of days gone by. My facts were straight - yours were close. It would be fun to find one of those legacy trucks that came in under the 5 year law, but the fact of the matter remains, that is no longer the way the law reads. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the truck was in currently Vancouver in my post. Did you not read that far?

You see, the problem is that guys sometimes are willing to cut corners to sell a truck or to import one. I know that's a shocker...used car sales, dealing with exotics, limited supply / heightened demand. Sometimes, believe it or not, guy will even stretch the truth a bit about the condition of the truck.

My concern, both for myself and for the other guys like me who really have to scrounge and save to get a 110 imported, is that I want to ensure, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the only grief I bring upon myself from purchasing an imported 110 is mechanical. Legal / unforseen financial / integrity issues stink for everyone.

I cussed you under my breath when I read your post. Sorry about that. That wasn't very nice. I also probably took some liberties with sarcasm and polemic myself in this post. My apologies for that as well. We need to play nice with one another because without a solid community among folks owning or wanting to own older Land Rovers, each of our individual chances of owning a truck we we would roughly call our dream is inherently diminished.

[Terrys]

Chris, no apologies, especially if it was under your breath. I tend to be sarcastic alot, but I'm completely harmless. You do have to admit, alot of your posts question the legitimacy of trucks in the states. I was under the impression you were questioning VTRover's truck which is in the states.
The first truck which comes to mind when pointing out an example of the old Five year gray market rule is my son's 1983 (or is an '84, I can't remember) Stage One 109. It was legally imported from Kenya, by a fellow from NY. Prior to the current 25 year ban on non listed vehicles. The NHTSA allowed every individual a one time, one vehicle exemption. Back then, safety items not onboard were done in the country of origin (Glass was the biggest issue they had, next to changing out clear lenses to amber) Porsches and MB were the most commonly imported gray market car, but I know of many Land Rovers, and have owned 4 of them that came in. Germany was the favored country to shop in since their vehicles are also LHD. There are a few 'individuals' who brought in many, using every family member and friend they had, as the named importer.
Companies, such as Amerispec, in Ridgefield CT, qualified quite literally hundreds are vehicles which were shipped in Bond, in an as bought condition.

[Terrys]

One more comment you made that I forgot to address was that of ebay and the vehicles that are listed with conflicting years. In defence of those who legitimately list gray market vehicles (a comment which might seem to cover lots which are not legitimate) are the sellers who get slammed by people unfamiliar with the gray market rules of the late 70s, and all the '80s. The ebay formats which a lister has to endure are written by part time college kids, long on IT, and short on experience. The Ebay Motors format does not allow vehicles beyond a certain year, which don't also have a 17 digit VIN. The US adaopted the 17 digit format well before many other countries, but vehicles allowed into the US during the 5 year gray market period did not all have 17 digit VIN numbers. There are hundreds of brain dead DMV employees, accusing potential registrants of fraud, when it simply comes down to their ignorance. My son's Stage one was registered from day one in NY, one of the toughest states for DMV regs. It was subsequently reregistered in RI (not so tough), where my son purchased it. The hoops the AK registry put my son through when he took his truck out there was seemingly endless, until the guy he bought it from sent him a duplicate registration from RI. He then got his plates, with no apologies.
I find it pretty unfair for people on the various boards to start threads which, by inference, make the seller out to be some shyster trying to pull a fast one and profit from the sale of an illegal vehicle, when much of the time it boils down to either no knowledge of past import rules, or, frankly, jealousy.

[VTRover]

As usual Terry is the voice of reason

Well I learned a valuable lesson from the e-bay and RN postings. The e-bay attempt was a complete joke. The buyer backed out almost immediately I'll never accept a zero bid buyer ever again. Second, I love the fact that people seem to want to chit chat about EVERYTHING else except the sale of vehicle. Third. This ain't some basket case truck we are talking about. This vehicle is very well known. It has been serviced in Vermont by ALL the major Land Rover repair shops and I think just about every RN employee knows about the vehicle (and the extensive amount of money spent and time spent on making it what it is). Anyone with half a brain can look at the list of parts and labor hours and get easily past $20,000.

Will I try to sell it again? I don't know. It was an achingly difficult decision in the first place and was a reflection of the recent economic hardships. In the meantime I'm enjoying it and entertaining offers from folks who are still interested in REALLY buying the vehicle.

[Carpe]

Well I learned a valuable lesson from the e-bay and RN postings. The e-bay attempt was a complete joke. The buyer backed out almost immediately I'll never accept a zero bid buyer ever again. Second, I love the fact that people seem to want to chit chat about EVERYTHING else except the sale of vehicle. Third. This ain't some basket case truck we are talking about. This vehicle is very well known. It has been serviced in Vermont by ALL the major Land Rover repair shops and I think just about every RN employee knows about the vehicle (and the extensive amount of money spent and time spent on making it what it is). Anyone with half a brain can look at the list of parts and labor hours and get easily past $20,000.

Will I try to sell it again? I don't know. It was an achingly difficult decision in the first place and was a reflection of the recent economic hardships. In the meantime I'm enjoying it and entertaining offers from folks who are still interested in REALLY buying the vehicle.

Terry's points are well-taken, though we don't particularly see eye-to-eye on some stuff. VTRover, you are clearly savvy about the price/value of your rover. However, the absolute LAST place I would offer a truck that I wanted to sell that has any value that someone (with half a brain) would want to buy would be ebay. Ebay is a lowball market that is wrought with scammers who want to buy your truck for $5k over what you sell it to them so that you can cut them a check for the difference while one of their "associates" picks up the car and ships it to them. I learned that lesson while trying to sell both of my discoveries. Thankfully, I didn't get rolled, but ebay is a great market for parts, not trucks of any value. If you want to sell it to a responsible owner and get anything out of it, sell it here or at the LandRoverExchange.com.

As I'm sure you well know, or should know, just because you put big bucks into it doesn't mean you'll get big bucks out. Make no mistake, your truck is outstanding - the parts list and the service history make it an excellent purchase (manufacture date / import date questions aside), I'm sure. Clarificatoin: Anyone with half a brain and over $20k of fun money on hand can get easily past $20,000.

Personally, I hope you don't sell it. Not because I hope you fail at selling it, but because I know what enjoyment you will get out of keeping it. It killed me every time I had to sell one of my Disco's.

Sorry if you got bent over all of the banter started by your posting your truck. If you do decide to sell it again, I hope you get enough out of it to make you content with selling it. Come 2009, if I hit some $20k+ windfall, I'll be the first to come knocking at your door with cash on hand and a 6-pack of Bass Ale to sooth the sting as you say goodbye to your baby.