Cost of 300tdi/R380 install?

[spacemutt]

Tdi's just dont sound as good as the V8s though...

Mind you, a tuned TD5....raaaa!!

Tried the Youtube box thingie...didn't work...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cidnFAa8XEU

[spacemutt]

I love my V8s. I have a 3.5 110 and a 3.5 130. Also a 4.6 Classic. I also have 2 200 Tdi Disco, a 200 Tdi 110 and just bought a 300 Tdi Disco.

The 130 is an expedition vehicle. The 110 Tdi has a rotten bulkhead, so all the mechanics is going to be transplanted into the 130 to make it more useable on a long run. I will get a longer range out of the fuel tank, and carrying spare fuel is safer. (btw, I was quoted about £1,000 to do the conversion)

Given the choice, I would have chosen a 200 Tdi engine. Why? It's simpler than the 300. The 300 has the serpintine belt with noisey tensioners, EGR systems, head gaskets failures, dog-leg gasket failures, etc. But the 200 just keeps going. And, in my experience, you sometimes get a good 300 engine, but most of the time they don't have as much poke as a 200.

And if I'm being really, really honest, they are just as quick as the V8s when you're moving. Not as quick from a standing start, but once rolling they pull well. Infact my Tdi 5 speed Defender will easily outrun my 4 speed with overdrive V8 110.

[junkyddog11]

For the most part leaks are about all you have to look for. I like to replace the timing belt and tensioners, front and rear main seals and fuel lift pump regardless of history. I generally do all the hoses. Service history or an acurate mileage count is nice.

Photos of an International 2.8 TGV (stroked 300tdi in drag) currently being installed. Not completed.....need a couple more days on that.

[Z O O R O P A]

thanks Matt, appreciate your wisdom and experience

can you tell me what to look out for when gauging a 200/300 as far as major issues besides leaks or basic commonsense stuff?

again, thanks!

love to see some of your work if you want to post up some pics

[junkyddog11]

26K for an engine install . . . kind of speaks for itself

unless you're in NYC or SF or something

some US owners on a US overland site reported this week the following;

low to mid 20s on a Defender 130 @ 65mph, 300tdi

200tdi 28-30mpg D110

TD5 26-28 @ 65mph D110

another TD5 owner 20-24 even @ 85mph D110


I'm at a loss to understand how the cost would run north of $12-15K. $26K? what's your labor rate? do I get a diamond ring with that? or some fries?

Not sure what you mean by conversions speaking for itself or the NYC/SF connection but the 26k install is for 18+K in new factory parts and and 100+hrs at shop rate of 75/hr. That's for a spanking new factory motor / trans and all AC / cruise control / every part that would have been on this car if factory built. If you were to drive it or look under the bonnet it would certainly speak for itself. It's a car you cannot buy here, cannot import here and is rare even in Europe.

I'd suppose you'd get a real laugh at the 100k+ plus Defenders that roll out of my shop.

I deal with 200tdi all the time also and they don't get better mileage than a 300.
I also deal with TD5's which do get very slightly better mileage....still not the range I see quoted frequently.

Anyhow....good luck with it. I'm not trying to be a buzz kill. It would in theory be to my advantage to inflate the actual performance figures of these things, and to deflate the cost. Just keeping it real.

[Z O O R O P A]

I'm sure that is true and no one is questioning the skills of Rover mechanics, just the prices and the potential of doing it yourself. To avoid the whole economic supply/demand niche market thing, yes people pay it, happily

does that mean you can't have a good reliable engine installed, that will perform well, put in by a novice or assisted; of course not. It isn't one way or the other. We are talking car mechanics/engines, not mapping the human gnome. Yes it requires attentiveness but it should not require 10-20K large UNLESS you want everything absolutely done new to perfect specs.

exploring it some more:

It seems the best way to go is buying an import with a diesel already installed unless you want to go to the UK and travel a bit, what a great opportunity. A sleeping bag, passport, and a map would be a fun time if you can buy a good reliable runner. Then ship it over. This will cost less from buying an import but you're gambling until you get the rig inspected and you know what to look for. I don't . . . yet

But if you want to say finance the deal, the car must be in the country already so that limits your options but not in a bad way. There are some nice rigs coming into the country for less than 20K$US

I guess as the conversation evolves, the real question is; what do I look out for when inspecting a refurbished or used diesel engine? 200/300? obviously rust, condition, type/amount of smoke out the pipe, sound, gear suppleness, etc.

what are the typical downfalls of each engine? we have access to some great experts here so this should be straight forward? If I was going to look at a US V8, I'd look for records, oil, leaks, valve issues, belts, last major service, fluids, etc. Most likely that won't be an option, but there have been half a dozen or so one owner imports coming in at good prices that do have service records

can anyone knock out a list of considerations when looking at a used rover diesel?

[Jim-ME]

I will personally vouch for Matt's quality of conversions. He is not a mechanic he is a craftsman. I had him do a straight NAD conversion on my 88 late last summer. Everyone who looks at the end result tells me that unless you know it was a gas job in it's prior life you wouldn't know the difference. Matt will tell you and so will the folks at ECR that you don't do a diesel conversion to save one red cent. You do it because that is what you want. Will the conversion save me any money, NO! Would I do it again, YES in a heartbeat! I am super pleased with my oil burner and wouldn't have my Rover any other way but I simply love diesel engines. The added benefit to my diesel fume induced happiness is that I have gained a great true friend in the process. In short, make sure you do any conversion be it diesel or souped up gas engine for the "right" reasons by the right shop or you will, in my opinion, end up with a piece of junk and tons of headaches.
Jim

[Z O O R O P A]

Dave love your signature quote from RH, that is a superb video isn't it?

would your recommendation then to either have it done in the UK overseen by a friend or just get a whole package and take my luck with an import?

what issues should I look for in a 200 or 300 that is used or what expectation should I have on a refurbished one?

many thanks!

[daveb]

( yours too I think eh daveb?)

Indeed, although I wasn't really surprised, just confirmed what I already knew. Was hoping mine could somehow be done on the cheap, for some reason. Actually probably would have been more than quoted due to all the non standard crap that I did

Zoo, you don't even want to know the cost of a new complete 300tdi engine. I'm afraid I will always be stuck with the junkyard units from the UK...its ok, I've never had a new engine in anything, only rebuilds or "unknown" and I've done ok. Always somewhat of a crap shoot though when buying from overseas.

[Z O O R O P A]

interesting, good point making the distinction, I had forgot the difference between UK and American gallons

26K for an engine install . . . kind of speaks for itself

unless you're in NYC or SF or something

some US owners on a US overland site reported this week the following;

low to mid 20s on a Defender 130 @ 65mph, 300tdi

200tdi 28-30mpg D110

TD5 26-28 @ 65mph D110

another TD5 owner 20-24 even @ 85mph D110

so I guess it varies

looking at the increase in availability in 25yo imports with diesels, it appears is most likely the way to go or just have a conversion done in the UK before shipping, even with currency exchange it would be far cheaper, which says a lot

I'm at a loss to understand how the cost would run north of $12-15K. $26K? what's your labor rate? do I get a diamond ring with that? or some fries?

then again, in America you can really spend as much as you want on anything you want

just teasing, sounds like you do superb work especially if you're booked up

there is a 200tdi coming in this week and 7 more diesels otw from another place I am exploring, let you know how it goes

thx again everyone for your insight and wisdom

[junkyddog11]

hence the 20 mp(US)g in my response. The fuel consumption of these things seem to be an ongoing debate. I have a bog standard RRC (not the S$$T!) that I've been playing with to see what can be acheived. Cannot get 25mpg avg. Can get 23 all day long, short trip, long trip, full of people , empty, towing a small boat.....doesn't matter. Does go down a bit if you drive over 65mph. Considering the same rig with the V8 did about 12-13 mpg it's a pretty good gain but will still take allot of driving to pay for itself. it had a brand new crate motor (factory kit) installed which for an RRC with AC and the correct trans, cruise control etc. runs about 26K (installed).

I get people dropping jaw on a daily basis ( yours too I think eh daveb?) it seems with the cost of these diesel installs. I also have more of them to do than I can schedule right now. There must be some sort of value in it, and I'm certainly not getting rich quickly (sort of a slow smelly rich!).

[daveb]

Also UK gallons are a bit bigger...

[junkyddog11]

there are certainly not as many parts available in the US for tdi engines. I am surprised to hear of the mpgs reported here as all the UK sites I peruse and some US owners have reported much better results

pretty much anything needed for these motors can be had in a day or two.
I keep most service items in stock and our hosts carry a large inventory.
I also work on, install and drive them daily, have done for years, have not seen 25mp(US)g yet. Probably can get low 20's on the hwy.....gets about the same around town.

You have to drive along way to break even. Not the right reason to do the swap.

[Z O O R O P A]

great responses all!

yes my armchair speaks volumes as you can see

I just want to thank everyone for taking a few minutes to share their knowledge and experience.

Forgive me, I did not want to come off presumptuous at all. If my discourse projected I know what I'm doing, I don't and my apologies. The only inspiration was that it can be done for a reasonable sum and to get myself familiar with the set up

And I agree 100% I would not do it right the first time around without at least hiring some expertise for consultation. No question. But over a few summer weekends with some instruction I think it certainly could be done for far less than the quotes I've received recently

Les, fortunately, I have access to some great and renown Rover service centers; Rovers North, the 4x4 Center, Lanny Clark, etc for when I get over my head, and I will get over my head

Dave thank you for the extensive write up, I wholly applaud you for the undertaking

there are certainly not as many parts available in the US for tdi engines. I am surprised to hear of the mpgs reported here as all the UK sites I peruse and some US owners have reported much better results

I guess maybe some other options might be to have it done over in the UK despite the exchange rate if I could find an appropriate vehicle before it gets snatched up

I'm still exploring it but I am excited at the prospect. Perhaps some further investigation might make it seem more possible or it might deter the idea all together

anyway, I thought it was a good subject for debate and thanks again for contributing, it is nice to get others perspectives

[solihull109]

Dave, you're 100% correct. Holly has never done a tdi swap.

Zoo --- I'm sure you're armchair is very cushy. Les made a very valid point, what happens when you get "stumped", which is very probable for even posting the way that you did.
Call ECR, see how far that gets you, or any other Indy shop, if mechanical things are beneath you, then why are you even asking any questions.
15K is short money to have it done right with decent parts.
Did you ever see what a $2000 200/300 diesel looks like?
I'm not trying be overly brash, but your last post warrants this a little.

Is the swap hard,... nope. But if you've never done one, there are things you'll miss, I'll bet on it.

So, calm down, reposition in your chair and sip your D/D coffee.