Cost of 300tdi/R380 install?

[Jim-ME]

I will personally vouch for Matt's quality of conversions. He is not a mechanic he is a craftsman. I had him do a straight NAD conversion on my 88 late last summer. Everyone who looks at the end result tells me that unless you know it was a gas job in it's prior life you wouldn't know the difference. Matt will tell you and so will the folks at ECR that you don't do a diesel conversion to save one red cent. You do it because that is what you want. Will the conversion save me any money, NO! Would I do it again, YES in a heartbeat! I am super pleased with my oil burner and wouldn't have my Rover any other way but I simply love diesel engines. The added benefit to my diesel fume induced happiness is that I have gained a great true friend in the process. In short, make sure you do any conversion be it diesel or souped up gas engine for the "right" reasons by the right shop or you will, in my opinion, end up with a piece of junk and tons of headaches.
Jim

[Z O O R O P A]

I'm sure that is true and no one is questioning the skills of Rover mechanics, just the prices and the potential of doing it yourself. To avoid the whole economic supply/demand niche market thing, yes people pay it, happily

does that mean you can't have a good reliable engine installed, that will perform well, put in by a novice or assisted; of course not. It isn't one way or the other. We are talking car mechanics/engines, not mapping the human gnome. Yes it requires attentiveness but it should not require 10-20K large UNLESS you want everything absolutely done new to perfect specs.

exploring it some more:

It seems the best way to go is buying an import with a diesel already installed unless you want to go to the UK and travel a bit, what a great opportunity. A sleeping bag, passport, and a map would be a fun time if you can buy a good reliable runner. Then ship it over. This will cost less from buying an import but you're gambling until you get the rig inspected and you know what to look for. I don't . . . yet

But if you want to say finance the deal, the car must be in the country already so that limits your options but not in a bad way. There are some nice rigs coming into the country for less than 20K$US

I guess as the conversation evolves, the real question is; what do I look out for when inspecting a refurbished or used diesel engine? 200/300? obviously rust, condition, type/amount of smoke out the pipe, sound, gear suppleness, etc.

what are the typical downfalls of each engine? we have access to some great experts here so this should be straight forward? If I was going to look at a US V8, I'd look for records, oil, leaks, valve issues, belts, last major service, fluids, etc. Most likely that won't be an option, but there have been half a dozen or so one owner imports coming in at good prices that do have service records

can anyone knock out a list of considerations when looking at a used rover diesel?

[junkyddog11]

26K for an engine install . . . kind of speaks for itself

unless you're in NYC or SF or something

some US owners on a US overland site reported this week the following;

low to mid 20s on a Defender 130 @ 65mph, 300tdi

200tdi 28-30mpg D110

TD5 26-28 @ 65mph D110

another TD5 owner 20-24 even @ 85mph D110


I'm at a loss to understand how the cost would run north of $12-15K. $26K? what's your labor rate? do I get a diamond ring with that? or some fries?

Not sure what you mean by conversions speaking for itself or the NYC/SF connection but the 26k install is for 18+K in new factory parts and and 100+hrs at shop rate of 75/hr. That's for a spanking new factory motor / trans and all AC / cruise control / every part that would have been on this car if factory built. If you were to drive it or look under the bonnet it would certainly speak for itself. It's a car you cannot buy here, cannot import here and is rare even in Europe.

I'd suppose you'd get a real laugh at the 100k+ plus Defenders that roll out of my shop.

I deal with 200tdi all the time also and they don't get better mileage than a 300.
I also deal with TD5's which do get very slightly better mileage....still not the range I see quoted frequently.

Anyhow....good luck with it. I'm not trying to be a buzz kill. It would in theory be to my advantage to inflate the actual performance figures of these things, and to deflate the cost. Just keeping it real.

[Z O O R O P A]

thanks Matt, appreciate your wisdom and experience

can you tell me what to look out for when gauging a 200/300 as far as major issues besides leaks or basic commonsense stuff?

again, thanks!

love to see some of your work if you want to post up some pics

[junkyddog11]

For the most part leaks are about all you have to look for. I like to replace the timing belt and tensioners, front and rear main seals and fuel lift pump regardless of history. I generally do all the hoses. Service history or an acurate mileage count is nice.

Photos of an International 2.8 TGV (stroked 300tdi in drag) currently being installed. Not completed.....need a couple more days on that.

[spacemutt]

I love my V8s. I have a 3.5 110 and a 3.5 130. Also a 4.6 Classic. I also have 2 200 Tdi Disco, a 200 Tdi 110 and just bought a 300 Tdi Disco.

The 130 is an expedition vehicle. The 110 Tdi has a rotten bulkhead, so all the mechanics is going to be transplanted into the 130 to make it more useable on a long run. I will get a longer range out of the fuel tank, and carrying spare fuel is safer. (btw, I was quoted about £1,000 to do the conversion)

Given the choice, I would have chosen a 200 Tdi engine. Why? It's simpler than the 300. The 300 has the serpintine belt with noisey tensioners, EGR systems, head gaskets failures, dog-leg gasket failures, etc. But the 200 just keeps going. And, in my experience, you sometimes get a good 300 engine, but most of the time they don't have as much poke as a 200.

And if I'm being really, really honest, they are just as quick as the V8s when you're moving. Not as quick from a standing start, but once rolling they pull well. Infact my Tdi 5 speed Defender will easily outrun my 4 speed with overdrive V8 110.

[spacemutt]

Tdi's just dont sound as good as the V8s though...

Mind you, a tuned TD5....raaaa!!

Tried the Youtube box thingie...didn't work...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cidnFAa8XEU

[gambrinus]

Also UK gallons are a bit bigger...

They're also a fair bit wetter, which also helps when computing MPG.

[daveb]

I did not know that. How is the wetness measured?

They're also a fair bit wetter, which also helps when computing MPG.

[Terrys]

I did not know that. How is the wetness measured?

In MUs (Misery Units)

[Moose]

I got a pretty good deal on my 300Tdi and R380 gearbox. Cost me £900 for the pair complete with everything else I needed to stuff them into my 110. Took a bit of a chance on the sellers claim that all was good, and luckily it turned out well. Shipping to Halifax was about $400. Shipping to me in Ontario was another $150. I bought a timing belt kit and a complete exhaust system. Also got a block heater. Couple buddies and I installed it and that cost me a couple lunches and a dinners. So for a bit less then 3 grand, I think I did pretty well. Then I was able to recoup a nice amount selling the short bell housing R380 I removed from my truck. Could have got more back but held on to the 2.5 NA diesel engine for my series.

So yeah, if you are lucky, it can be done for a reasonable cost. Certainly helps if you are fairly handy and have some switched on Land Rover friends willing to help out.

Engine has been in the 110 for two years now as of this weekend.

Brett

[Maryland 110]

Not sure where the floods of 200 and 300 tdi engines are coming from or who is getting them in, or if its even happening, but keep in mind these engines are not approved by the epa and are therefore not legal for highway use in the US. I think sending $3k to some dude in the UK for a clapped out engine with a salt rotted radiator, from a car with unknown milage (funny how they always state its 80-100k miles) is a case of fool and his money easliy parted-but most of us have taken the risk and thats the only way it happens cheap. Why is because LRNA never tried to offer them and never petitioned to have them approved. A 1989 200 tdi is a legal engine this year (epa 21yr rule)- but it cannot be in a 1985 110 when imported as the original engine is supposed to be in that truck for it to be a legal import per the letter of the law. Don't mean to sound negative but like Carey,Matt, and Dave, I think you have the wrong impressions. All four of us have spent a ton of time with these engines. Also the 200 and 300 Tdi's are exactly the same size and displacements, one is mounted further forward because of the transmission inputshaft/bellhousing length than the other. BTW Daves backyard install rivals my factory one....oooopps.

[Maryland 110]

some US owners on a US overland site reported this week the following;

low to mid 20s on a Defender 130 @ 65mph, 300tdi

That was me before tweaking the pump for more torque

65 seems to be that magic number where economy drops dramatically. The engine will cheerfully catepult you down the road faster..

[JimC]

There is no way to inoculate yourself against unexpected expenditures by reading web advice, even advice from the very-qualified. If you've never done or budgeted for a big project before (on your car, your house, your lawn, whatever) then you are going to mess up the cost and time estimate. Even pros have cost overruns all the time, its nothing to be ashamed of, but its something that should be understood. Bottom line: Once you figure out what you think your cost will be for the project, don't bother starting unless you can afford to spend at least twice that figure.

That being said, you can substitute your time for $$ in some cases - i.e take a drive shaft out and have it shortened for a hundred bucks instead of buying replacements etc. But then of course you have to know what dimensions you need etc.

Good luck, but don't come back claiming victory if you do a cheap install and have any parts from Home Depot or Lowe's under the hood.

Now its my turn end a mildly insulting message with a smiley

[daveb]

Good luck, but don't come back claiming victory if you do a cheap install and have any parts from Home Depot or Lowe's under the hood.

Jim that's too funny. Try as I might, I can never get the parts from Home Depot to fit.