a non stater

[NickDawson]

Hey gang,
Quick update... Tonight I replaced the electrical leads and terminals from the battery to the starter and to the frame. I also put a ground strap on the starter. No benefit. With a jump from another vehicle, it's still just a click and nothing.

I'm inclined to think stuck bendix at this point. I'll drop the exhaust down pipe and yank the starter this weekend. Hopefully it's just gunked up and I clean it out. If not, I'll be calling GE UK

Thanks for the advice and please keep it coming. Even if the cables and terminals weren't the problem, it was probably worth doing. Even if I did almost arc weld a wrench to my farme in the process

[siii8873]

You do not have to drop your exhaust to remove the starter. I know it's a PITA but not necessary. May open a can of worms with the manifold studs.

[Terrys]

You do not have to drop your exhaust to remove the starter.

X2. Just crank your steering wheel all the way to the right and it will come out. Tilt the outer end of the starter upward to clear the bellhousing, then let it down bendix first.

[NickDawson]

Beautiful Virginia day...spring break from school...nothing looming for the work week so that means some good quality Rover time!

I made some progress and was able to get the starter motor off without dropping the exhaust. With the 2.5l and starter, it's not a function of the wheel position. Rather it's access to the top bolt which is doubly complicated in my setup. Regardless, I used the force, and a ratchet extender and found the bolt.

When I "bench" tested things, I was glad to see that both the motor and solenoid seem to be working. Take a look at this video

When I apply voltage to the main battery terminal of the stater, the motor spins into high gear and seems to be turning fine.

When I apply voltage to what I'm calling the solenoid terminal, the bendix kicks out and the motor turns very slowly. if I try and jump them both at the same time, nothing happens. I'm assuming that's all normal operation? Then again, shouldn't I be able to apply voltage to both at the same time and get the desired high speed spin and bendix movement? I was reluctant to try and bridge those contacts too much since I wasn't sure if it would cause damage.

here's a closer look at those two terminals:


Bench Test by NickDawson, on Flickr

My next step is to ensure that I've got a good connection from the wire to the solenoid terminal. The connector seems a little lose and I'm hopeful that's all there is to it. I'll report back shortly.

In the mean time, any comments or suggestions regarding the "bench" test (which is really a "ground test" in my case ?

[NickDawson]

I didn't make much progress today, although I took a lot of stuff apart

I replaced the connectors on the lead from this relay to the solenoid:

relay by NickDawson, on Flickr

And then I tested the starter which you'll see in this video.
[flash=http://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786]width="400" height="225" flashvars="intl_lang=en-us&photo_secret=45cd2387d7&photo_id=6827611410" bgcolor="#000000" allowFullScreen="true"[/flash]

As you'll see, the bendix moves forward and the motor starts turning.

I made sure the the new ground strap on the stater had a good connection to the frame...hooked all the wiring back up and still just a click when I turn the key.

That click is the same click as when I test it - the solenoid's magnet and movement.

It's almost like the flywheel is jammed? Could that be? I've started the rover a few times by getting a tug from another truck and popping the clutch. Wouldn't that suggest everything is moving appropriately?

Where does all this take us? I think we've ruled out electrical issues, right? Could the starter still be bad and just incapable to working under mechanical load?

Related - I'm quasi inspired to strip and rewire the entire electrical system. But that's a project for after graduate school. Right now, I just need to get it running.

[SafeAirOne]

zDoes your motor turn when you use the hand crank?

Is that a new starter or an old one? It may be engaging the flywheel, but still not have enough torque to do anything once its engaged for whatever reason.

EDIT: I just re-watched the video. It seems like it's taking an awful long time for your starter to spool up. Ususally it's just "Bam--Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" not "Click--rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ".

[NickDawson]

zDoes your motor turn when you use the hand crank?

Is that a new starter or an old one? It may be engaging the flywheel, but still not have enough torque to do anything once its engaged for whatever reason.

EDIT: I just re-watched the video. It seems like it's taking an awful long time for your starter to spool up. Ususally it's just "Bam--Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" not "Click--rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ".

Thanks SafeAirOne

This thing doesn't have a dog for the hand crank, just a massive 2.5" (I think) hex head bolt. I have pull started it a few times, so the engine is turning over. Wouldn't that mean the flywheel is free too?

Regarding the starter's speed...or lack there of:

When I put a jumper right on the main terminal, the gear remains retracted but spins quite fast. When I bench test with everything attached correctly the result is what you see in that video - extended gear, slow spin.

My question, with a sample size of 1 strange rover to reference, is that normal? If not, I'll yank it and take to a starter shop tomorrow.

It's only about 2 years old - had to order it from Dingocroft in the UK when the orignal starter bit the dust. That doesn't mean it is of any quality though... likely britpart or similar.

[SafeAirOne]

Thanks SafeAirOne

This thing doesn't have a dog for the hand crank, just a massive 2.5" (I think) hex head bolt. I have pull started it a few times, so the engine is turning over. Wouldn't that mean the flywheel is free too?

That's right you have the 2.5P. It's actually a big bolt with a 41mm head holding the pully on the crank.

I guess the question is "do you hear it whirring away when you're cranking it or does it just go "'clunk' and then nothing?"

If it's a clunk and nothing, then I might drag the starter down to an electric shop for a checkup, presuming that there's nothing impeding the full flow of electricity from your fully charged and servicable battery.

[NickDawson]

The Rover rides again!
Just to close this thread - I found a local rebuilder who went to town on my Dingocroft 1 year old starter. I picked it up yesterday and within 10 minutes had the rover back on the road.

Thanks everyone for the troubleshooting advice and support.

As part of the proces, I ended up replacing all the battery leads and ground straps, which I'm sure will prove to be worthwhile.

I got a kick out of the old timer working on the starter - he apparently had to dip into his stock of tractor parts to find an armature. I didn't want to know too much more...

Now, to fix the brake adjusters and the toe-in alignment and she'll be as good as...new'ish?