Drilling keyhole in door skin

[vlad_d]

Hi folk,
New to the forum. I just purchased a 1973 Series 3, 109 (LWB). I'm trying to replace all locks and latches to the "non burst" style. It seems the latch kits our hosts sell may require the kind of doors with an extra keyhole. Hard to tell from looking at them, but the product description mentions this. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with drilling out their door skins to accept the lock cylinder poking through. Trying to avoid having to buy new doors. Is there a template available? How to center it right? What bit to use? Is there such a thing as a metal cutting forstner bit? How to protect paint from flaking while drilling? Any advice would be appreciated!

[erik88lr]

I have a 1973 Ser 3 with the original door locks. See photo. If yours is also a '73 shouldn't it be the same?
I suppose one could use a hole saw and cut through the aluminum skin easily enough if the lock holes were not there. The black plastic trim ring would cover any minor errors.

[vlad_d]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13602[/ATTACH]
I have a 1973 Ser 3 with the original door locks. See photo. If yours is also a '73 shouldn't it be the same?
I suppose one could use a hole saw and cut through the aluminum skin easily enough if the lock holes were not there. The black plastic trim ring would cover any minor errors.

Mine has the 2/2A door locks. The parts book also shows the classic door latches.(What's the opposite of "anti-burst"? Is bursting open a feature? Burst doors?)

I can drill a hole, but worried about getting it lined up. If I get it wrong, I'm out $300 for a new door and a paint job. Oof!

[Sherony]

I did this procedure on mine many years ago. If I remember correctly I held the new latch in place and marked its position on the inside, measured a half dozen times, then drilled a tiny pilot hole. Once confirming it was centered, I placed masking tape over the soon to be hole then lubricated a brand new hole saw with oil and slowly poked a hole in the skin. It worked well on all three doors.

[jimrr]

polish that hole around the diameter to lessen any chances of it starting a crack.

[vlad_d]

Thanks guys. I will give this a shot.

Turns out my rear door has the hole in it. So, I have both types on my Rover?! Nice thing is, the right hand front door and the rear door take the same latch. So, there's potential there to check the fit against the rear door. I was also thinking of making a template based on the rear door keyhole and the handle recess hole - then trying to match that up with the front right door (and flipping it for the front left).

I'll post pictures when I work the nerve up to cut my door(within the next two weeks). Still waiting on a parts order for lock cylinders that's been delayed. Fun.

[vlad_d]

Update.

Okay! I had a chance to work this weekend on my doors. I'll post what I did, in case it helps anyone. I started with the rear door of my 109 series 3. It's a Station Wagon style door, and happened to have been already drilled out for anti-burst door hardware (though still had the 2a style door latches). A good test for the front doors I'm about to do next.

"Genuine" part VS "Proline"
As most of us do, I took a look at the "Genuine" door latch hardware and the "Proline" versions. I'm not usually cheap, but the genuine parts were something like $200 more expensive. So I went with the "Proline". I figured that the mark up for genuine Land Rover was exorbitant, and - surely, the manufacturing process was good enough these days that they could make a good aftermarket part. Holy moly was I wrong, and I spent 2 days basically fabricating and shaping-to-fit to make this turd work.

The latch was pretty good. I don't have a grievance there. But the striker was just about 1/8th of an inch too long/wide. I've seen videos and looked in the parts catalog where there is a shim fitted to bring the striker "out" more. This was NOT my problem! The striker I got was TOO thick! I think, maybe, the manufacturer was trying to do away with the shim, and added the 1/8th of an inch difference to the striker itself! There is NO adjustment possible here, it's a cast part. The striker has slotted holes to adjust the fit "inside and outside the vehicle" axis. But nothing to adjust the axis "towards and away from the hinge". Check out this photo:

...as you can see, it's about 1/8" too proud of the attachment. There's nothing I could do but to grind it down. All kinds of interference at first. I couldn't shave it down the full 1/8" because the flange casting was only 3/16" or so. So. my only option was to shave 1/16" from each side, to combine the 1/8" I needed. So, I shaved 1/16" off the flange fitting and 1/16" at the end of the striker. Here is a comparison of the un-molested RH Door Latch (which is the same latch) I have going in next:

...you'll notice a huge amount of metal removed. I don't have a milling machine. So I had to use my 6" vise, and a belt sander clamped into it with 120 grit sandpaper. I think I burned out the motor, but I got it done. After a bunch of fittings and removing and grinding more, I got it to work(lock) nicely.

The next unpleasant issue was the little plastic trim that covers the key-hole. The original one on the car was painted over. So I wanted to replace with the new one, for a nice clean look. Well, again, the "Proline' part was made in China an terrible fitment. As you can see here, it was all wrong. It's wider, and doesn't taper. So I had to enlarge my keyhole for this. See photos:

...luckily, the overlap on these trim pieces is so large that - well, it covers any sloppy hole adjustment. Also, the door being soft aluminum, my dremel tool with a grinder bit on the end made short work of the hole enlargement.

Which leads me back to the original post. I guess drilling the hole in the front doors won't be too hard, since the trim is forgiving in the generous overlap. I think you said this already, erik88lr. Thanks again.

To help myself - and others - I traced out a template. I'm going to scan this into my computer and trace out a nice vector drawing with a inch-scale to help with printing it out the right size for future readers of this post to print out. Here's the process, for anyone interested:


Does any of this stuff fit?
What I'm slowly realizing is that the Proline stuff is junk. I've now spent about $2500 on various things over the last 2 months from our hosts. I am happy to have them as a resource, but my own inclinations to save money has ruined my weekends, because nearly 80% of the "Proline" parts I bought HAVE NOT FIT or REQUIRED FABRICATION. Counting down: ExMoor floor mats - don't fit, ExMoor LoadSpace Mat - required 3" trimming, Seat Belts - took two different models to fit, battery hold down bracket - doesn't fit my battery, door latch strikers - heavy grinding to fit, Door seal kit - none of the rivet holes aligned, had to cut some of the seals(too long) and they are so hard that they don't let my door close. So, I ask the LandRover community : does ANY of this stuff fit? Sure, there are 3 places to assign blame - 1) My truck could be wonky, 2) Manufacturing in the 1970's could have been crap at LR or 3) Parts manufacturers are making bad parts. I just never had this problem with AC Delco parts for my Chevy, or parts for my Mazda. Soo...what's the deal?! Is the "genuine" stuff better? Is it worth 300% markup?

...more to follow next week.

[erik88lr]

Yikes, what a pain to make it all fit. I think I'd been tempted to leave the old striker and remove the paint from the trim ring and reuse it, but then what's the use of paying for the new parts? They should have fit.

Luckily I haven't had to replace too many landy parts lately, the most recent being fuel pump and carb. The fuel pumps were all terrible - not delivering enough fuel at speed. Must have gone through four of the things. Finally gave up and installed an electric pump.

The reproduction Zenith carb worked fine except for the accelerator pump function. Tried to fix it but finally resorted to transplanting the accelerator pump piston out of my original carb into the new one to stop the truck from bogging down off idle. Come to think of it, replacing the leaky carb was required when the Proline rebuild kit had too many ill fitting parts....

Yeah, I guess you get what you pay for with these Proline parts.

Nice sequence of photos describing your work, though. Glad it all came out alright.

[vlad_d]

...[sic] I think I'd been tempted to leave the old striker and remove the paint from the trim ring and reuse it
... The fuel pumps were all terrible - not delivering enough fuel at speed. Must have gone through four of the things. Finally gave up and installed an electric pump....

I couldn't...the old striker was the 2a style (it doesn't work with the new "anti-burst" latch).

That's disappointing to hear about the carburetors and fuel pump. Another project I was thinking of taking on. But it sounds like I should leave it unless there's a problem. I remember doing an Edlebrock carb on one of my classic GM cars...it just turned the thing around. Really felt like a new(ish) car. I was hoping a new carb would give it that snappy feel. Now it sounds like just opening up more problems to solve.

Case in point - after I fixed my door latch, the wife texts me that my headlights are on. Looks like an old electrical problem reared it's ugly head. Come on Landy!! I just fixed something and you're angry with me? Door latches have nothing to do with electrical!!!

[vlad_d]

For anyone reading this later, I added a template you can print out and use to mark/tape up to your door for drilling alignment: (updated dimensions)

1) Do right-click > Save Image...
2) When printing out, make sure your printing preview doesn't try to stretch the image to fit on the page. Use the printout scale against a ruler to confirm it's to scale before drilling your door.
3) As always, this is a "good faith" effort to share with the community. Don't blame me if you ruin your door. In using this template I'm not liable, etc, etc...

[vlad_d]

I finally got around to drilling out one of the front doors for the new "anti-burst" door latches.

Since I have documented the previous steps and findings, I'll post some more pictures of the process:
It seems the forum only has a 20MB total limit on photos, so I am having to crop these together to save my space.


1) I put some tape on the area to be drilled, hoping to save the paint job a bit.
2) I found that it was easier to match up the template to the handle hole that I was using for registration if I cut out the hole in the template with a razor blade on some cardboard before trying to line it up.
3) I decided to try a 7/8" forstner bit, because they make really nice holes for woodworking projects. Looking around on metal fabrication websites, I saw that aluminum is soft enough to use these. And it worked great.
4) I put the centering barb on the drill bit on the "+" center, and tapped it with a wrench to act as a center punch. I didn't want to really dent it, more like poke a hole in the tape and paint...
5) Even with the center punch, the drill bit wandered a bit. So- [ProTip] - use a self-centering metal drill bit and drill a 1/8" pilot hole. The centering barb on the forstner bit was about that thick at the bottom. And, with that centering hole drilled, it didn't wander any more.
6) The hole profile was drilled fast and clean.
7) Aw crap! I guess I was about 1/16th off. The plastic keyhole trim covers about 1/4" over, so we're good, it will hide any difference. I purposely put the size of the lock cylinder hole as the smaller one from my factory rear door (see previous post, the new plastic trim is larger). So I planned to enlarge to fit. Used a Dremel and metal grinding bit to enlarge and re-center to the area marked in sharpie pen. I went back and updated/edited the previous post's attached template to account for this difference.
8) Getting the trim piece in is finicky. There are two retention tabs on either side, but they hit the lock cylinder when trying to compress. Maybe put the trim in first, then the lock? But I had taken the door latch off and on about 8 times to adjust the fit and action, so I was not going to take it all off for a plastic trim piece. I used the Dremel to grind down the plastic inside a bit.
9) I had to pack it up for the day...but I might play around with the fit of that trim piece later. They are cheap, and I might buy another one and shave the key cylinder hole a little bit more for a better fit. But that basically finishes the installation.

For those not familiar with the difference between Series 2 & 2A standard door latches and "Anti-burst" door latches - I made up a comparison pic:

Latch Comparison:
The big differences are that they use a completely different striker, and the door key cylinder is in a different place - which necessitates drilling out your doorskins (or buying doors pre-drilled for said locks).
The bolt pattern is the same, which is nice.
Issues, always Issues...
On the Proline latches I got, the bottom hole closest to the latch mechanism was about 3x as thick as the standard one installed on my Series 3.
This was a problem using the new stainless steel plate with bolts pre-welded in place.
There seem to be two kinds of these plates:
* One of them has a flat profile presented to the outside, with a threaded rod going inward that you attach nuts to.
* The other has a nut welded on, and you put bolts through.
The one with no visible hardware on the outside makes sense for using on the bottom, because it's visible through the handle hole - but on my set, the threaded rod is too short to spin a nut on in that thicker hole highlighted in the pictures above. So, I had to use the first kind, with the welded nut on the outside, because it came with longer bolts.
[Pro Tip] Get both types. They are cheap and good insurance in case your door is slightly wonky.

Finally:
Also, to wrap up this project, I guess I should also mention that I had to rebuild the sheet metal under the door latch.
In case any of you have to do the same, here's a quick break-down of some steps I took, and a photo:

1) The door skin is aluminum (yeay!) but the frame and loor latch mounting area is steel (booo!)...so it rusted. Also, the previous owners had bad alignment on the latch, so they clearly slammed and pushed it shut enough to where the sheet metal ripped away. I had only 3 holes to bolt to.
2) So, I ended up using the door latch gasket as a template, outlining it with a sharpie on some 22 gauge steel and drilled and cut with tin snips. Fit to the missing pieces.
3) I did some test spot welds, then went around adding small tacks until I filled most of the area. It's tricky with this thin of metal as you burn through more often than weld.
4) Grind it down with the Dremel tool and hand file, then sand-paper to make it flat enough to not affect the fit of the new latch. Kind of ugly for body-work, but it will be hidden behind the door latch!
5) Primer and some automotive black paint so it won't rust agiain. I actually kind of like the way the black looks from the outside - it blacks out the door handle hole, and matches the black on the headlight panels. I might keep it that way.
I think I am spending too much time trying to save these doors!
-Cheers, thanks for reading.

[jimrr]

viad-d, I suppose we've all had some issues with the pro-line. Having worked in production run before it seems some of the items may of been engineered to fit similar applications, in other words, they 'mostly' fit ...... more than the land rover. the rivit holes for instance in the door trim should be different on all Land rovers as that in the 70's would be done by hand. were I a supplier I might leave the holes out so the user could use the old holes. Glad to see you this involved after owning a Rover for ......... 2? weeks!
yup, a lot of the 'improvements' could be forsaken. by the Mid 70's they'd made about a million Land Rover Series and any bugs were by and large worked out. I haven't looked at anti burst door locks but have had the latch assy. apart, i think simply putting the lock on may be as effective but maybe not.

[vlad_d]

I deleted the last post, because I don't think it helps anyone with fitment issues or door key holes. Will just keep this thread about door latches.

[vlad_d]

So, this weekend, I got around to doing the last of three doors(Passenger side door). This one also had the 2/2a style latches, and no key cylinder. It had that little knob where you HAVE to unlock from the inside. I wanted to fit the "anti-burst" latch here to complete the set, and also add a key cylinder to make locking and unlocking the Passenger side easier(no reaching over the seat and center console).

As this was the 3rd door, and probably the 20th time I disassembled everything, it went pretty much as expected- which is to say "lots of fitment issues, but nothing suprising". I had to grind down the strikers again, but not as much. I learned the angle grinder makes fast work of it. I finished it with a hand file to leave smooth surfaces for the locking mechanism. Also, this sounds crazy, but after a while, it was easier to just use the angle grinder right on the striker as it was installed in the car to adjust fit. Close the door, see where it's rubbing, and grind that area down, try again. Saved me 10 mins unbolting each time.

The keyhole ended up being off on this door, too. I have to say that I think I had 3 different doors on the truck, which may be your case too. I guess there's no telling what rusted out or was replaced over the years by previous owners. So, I would advise don't try to use a template, like I did...because that assumes some uniformity...which is sadly not a given. As I said, this could be either 1) Bent truck, 2) Aftermarket doors over the years, or 3) bad new latch parts. It all just makes the whole thing bespoke, and I would treat each door as an independent problem.

If I had to do it again, I'd drill a 1/8" hole as close to center as I could and then stick the drill bit through and measure the offset to make it dead-center on the lock cylinder...and drill again there. If you remove the lock tumbler from the latch assembly, it installs perfectly behind the keyhole and leaves space so you can test fit. You can drill as many 1/8" holes as you need to, to get it centered...because when you come back with the 7/8" forstner bit, it whipes out the missed holes.

Last thing I'll say is that the Proline latches were good, I'd say those are quality. But the Proline strikers are crap. Since the genuine latches are crazy expensive, I would recommend saving on the latches and spring for genuine strikers to get a good fit. Or just get genuine both strikers and latches.

So, I now have 1 key that opens all the doors, and I don't have to walk around the car to open the Passenger side door from the inside. The "anti-burst" locks have a satisfying pivot down locking mechanism that feels good. I hated how the 2/2a locks had kind of two locking positions on the striker...you guys know what I'm talking about, that second outer catch? It sort of fake closes? Anyway, it feels secure and a minor quality of life improvement, so I'd reccomend the upgrade. Just expect some hassle.