Making a steering correction

[Rosie]

That's clear now, thanks!

[Rosie]

Mark,
Following your directions....
I moved the steering wheel back and forth to see if there is any movement in the arm off the steering box. Yes there is a little movement. Not much, very little, but it is not tight.
Is there supposed to be any movement? A little movement? Or none? Should that arm be tight when moving the steering wheel back and forth within the 5" of "play" area? I did not move the steering wheel so that the tires move, only within the play range.
Your instructions say to adjust if there is any movement.
I am guessing you mean to adjust the inner nut on the steering box.
If so, we have done some of that.
The outer nut is not moving at all. My husband sprayed "break free" lub on the outer nut but it will not move. He is afraid he will break it. Should we be moving this outer nut for this adjustment?
We have moved the inner nut. How much can the inner nut move? I guess that is hard to tell, depending on where it was positioned in the first place....not clear how much that nut can and should move.
Is this the adjustment you are talking about, and should I adjust the inner nut more given that there is a wee bit of movement in the arm?
Hope that is clear!
Thanks so much!!!

[zayante]

Re: Step #1, I don't know if this will help, but you might want to check out:

http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/SIII_steering_play.htm

It might take some penetrating oil and some tapping on the nut to free the larger lock nut from the inner hex head screw once you back out the nut/screw if they move together. Back the nut off a bit while you adjust the screw.

When you figure out what the proper setting of the inner screw is, you'll want to hold it as stationary as you can while you tighten the nut down.

This adjustment can't completely compensate for wear, and you don't want it completely play-free at the centered position or it will be too tight at full steering lock.

[Rosie]

where will I get an alignment anyway? Not just any alignment shop is going to know how to align a Rover, right?

[Rosie]

another thing....the tie rod ends are the same thing as what the british call steering ball joints, right?

[Moose]

where will I get an alignment anyway? Not just any alignment shop is going to know how to align a Rover, right?

Any tire shop that does alignments should be able align a Land Rover. I've never had a problem finding one. Now, they most likely won't have any specs for a Series truck, but like some one mentioned earlier, the only adjustment is the toe in, which I believe is 1/16 - 1/8 inch.

Brett

[SafeAirOne]

I moved the steering wheel back and forth to see if there is any movement in the arm off the steering box. Yes there is a little movement. Not much, very little, but it is not tight.
Is there supposed to be any movement? A little movement? Or none?

Ideally, the arm on the steering box should begin to move shortly after you begin turning the steering wheeel. 5" of steering wheel movement and the arm just starts to move is excessive and indicates that the steering box could use some adjustment (hopefully) or overhaul/replacement. It's unlikely that the arm will ever begin moving the moment the steering wheel begins moving, but the closer the better.

Should that arm be tight when moving the steering wheel back and forth within the 5" of "play" area? I did not move the steering wheel so that the tires move, only within the play range.

I'm not sure what you mean by "tight", but the arm should be moving very shortly after you begin turning the steering wheel. Moving the steering wheel until a front wheel moves just kind of gives you a gauge of how much slop you have over the entire system. The worn parts generally make themselves obvious within the 5" of play.

Your instructions say to adjust if there is any movement.
I am guessing you mean to adjust the inner nut on the steering box.
If so, we have done some of that.
The outer nut is not moving at all. My husband sprayed "break free" lub on the outer nut but it will not move. He is afraid he will break it. Should we be moving this outer nut for this adjustment?

That outer nut is a jam nut. It meerely keeps the inner threaded part from turning after it is adjusted.

We have moved the inner nut. How much can the inner nut move? I guess that is hard to tell, depending on where it was positioned in the first place....not clear how much that nut can and should move.
Is this the adjustment you are talking about, and should I adjust the inner nut more given that there is a wee bit of movement in the arm?
Hope that is clear!

EDIT: There are 4 steps to adjusting the steering box (on the Ser III, anyhow--I don't imagine the IIA procedure is different. If it is, I'm sure someone will say):

1) Set road wheels to the straight ahead position
2) Slacken the adjuster lock nut
3) Tighten the adjuster to reduce steering wheel backlash
4) Tighten the locknut

Have a look at the following website. It has many Rover manuals available for download in .PDF format. Though they dont have Series IIA books, if you download the Series III manual Part 5, have a look at page 57-1 and beyond, it'll tell you all about the steering system, including adjusting the steering box. It should be pretty similar to yours.

See: http://www.landrover.ee/est/varia/downloads/cars.htm

another thing....the tie rod ends are the same thing as what the british call steering ball joints, right?

Yes--The above manual calls them ball joints.

[Rosie]

Mark, thanks so much!!
The download you refered me to forwards me to an error page on the Series III manual. Too bad.
Let me just get one thing even more clear about the arm off the steering box...thanks for your patience!
The arm is moving back and forth, I would say...1/2 inch or so, maybe less, as I move the steering wheel back and forth within the 5" of play.
Should this arm be moving at all when turning the steering wheel within the 5" of play area, or should the arm begin to move only when the steering wheel actually starts to turn the wheel, after I am out of the play area?

And about tie rod ends, should they have any movement at all in them, when you rock them back and forth, or up and down? They were installed new on this vehicle, and I guess they never have to greased, is that correct?
Also the seller tells me that I should have the toe-in done before I mess with the steering box. Would you agree?
I appreciate your help tremendously!!!

[Rosie]

http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/SIII_steering_play.htm

Chris, thanks for the link!!

[SafeAirOne]

Mark, thanks so much!!
The download you refered me to forwards me to an error page on the Series III manual. Too bad.

By Jove, you're right! Sorry--I downloaded all the manuals a long time ago--It appears as if the site has bad links now. I've been sending folks to this site for the manuals for a while, too...

Let me just get one thing even more clear about the arm off the steering box...thanks for your patience!
The arm is moving back and forth, I would say...1/2 inch or so, maybe less, as I move the steering wheel back and forth within the 5" of play.
Should this arm be moving at all when turning the steering wheel within the 5" of play area...

Yes , the arm should move within the "play area" The sooner it moves when you begin turning the steering wheel in the "play area", the better. By the way, make sure the steering box is bolted down solidly, as someone previously mentioned.

... or should the arm begin to move only when the steering wheel actually starts to turn the wheel, after I am out of the play area?

No. In the play area.

And about tie rod ends, should they have any movement at all in them, when you rock them back and forth, or up and down?

There should be no movement in them. The ball joints are just that--a ball surrounded tightly by a socket. The ball part is the bit attached to the steering arm and the socket is the bit attached to the end of the steering rod/drag link---whatever you want to call it. The only acceptable movement is if you grab the steering rod and twist it like a motorcycle throttle, the ends should swivel a little bit on the ball. There should be no other type of movement.

They were installed new on this vehicle, and I guess they never have to greased, is that correct?

It depends on who makes the ball joints. Some have grease fittings on the flat part of the socket, some don't. I have a mixture of both on my truck.

Also the seller tells me that I should have the toe-in done before I mess with the steering box. Would you agree?

It couldn't hurt, but the 4 steps I quoted earlier were verbatum from the Series III workshop manual that is now a dead link. If you have an alignment done, the book says the toe-in should be set to 3/64 to 3/32 of an inch on the Series III. I'm confident that this should work for a Series IIA as well, but again, I'm sure someone will chime in if this is incorrect for a Series IIA.

[Tim Smith]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, but I've seen happen... Check to make sure the steering box is actually mounted tightly to the frame. It is mounted to the frame via a mounting plate that is pretty easy to see when you look in from the wheel well.

If you have a long arm, you might be able to check this single handedly by rocking the wheel back and fourth while looking at the mounting plate along the frame.

When this happened to me, it was pretty obvious because the floor boards/bulkhead actually twisted up and down depending on which way I was turning.

[Rosie]

I'm still working on my steering prob... now trying to align...here is the prob...
The measurement between the screws front and back:
53-1/8 for the front
53-6/8 for the back.
My husband began to untighten the bolts on the clamp on the ends of the rod that connect the two front tires. One bolthead broke off on the passenger side, and the clamp did not loosen. The clamp on the other side (drivers side) did loosen, but the threaded rod does not move, and he is afraid that torquing it will break the steering ball joint.
Any ideas on how to loosen the rod?

[greenmeanie]

Rosie,
The first thing to do is buy a can of PB Blaster or Kroil. Don't bother with WD40 as it is not a true penetrating oil. Make it a big can. In fact you might want to invest in the company as you are going to use lots of this stuff.

Apply a healthy dose to all fasteners you even think you might have to work on. Give any exposed threads a quick wire brush to get rid of any crud. If that doesn't shift it then apply a heat. Be careful around the ball joints so you don't damamge the seal/boot and don't melt the grease out of it.

If you are working on the track rods it is worth pulling the joints all the way out and looking for corrosion on the inside of the tube. They have been known to corrode to the pointof failure while appearing good from the outside.Of course, if it gets destroyed Jim at Series trewk sells really nice linkage tubes made out of DOM tubing that use jam nuts on the ball joint thread. Much stronger and nicer than OEM.

On reassembly of any fastener make sure you use liberal amounts of anti sieze to make it easier the next time.

Cheers
Gregor

[SafeAirOne]

53-1/8 for the front 53-6/8 for the back.
My husband began to untighten the bolts on the clamp on the ends of the rod that connect the two front tires. One bolthead broke off on the passenger side, and the clamp did not loosen.

Just take a flat screwdriver and pry it open. Replacement bolts available at local hardware store. If it were me, I'd get fine threads and use stainless steel. Use a self-locking nut with a nylon insert (ny-lock). No worries when you go to undo it 10 years from now.

The clamp on the other side (drivers side) did loosen, but the threaded rod does not move, and he is afraid that torquing it will break the steering ball joint.

I have had to squirt mine down with penetrating oil like greenmeanie says, put the ball joint end in a vise, then twist the heck out of the rod with a plumber's pipe (monkey) wrench. It puts a few teeth marks in the rod, but I just file them down to relieve any resulting stress points. The ball joints are only $21 each, depending where you source them, so its not worth being delicate with the ones you have. For $125 you could change them ALL and not worry about any slop in ANY of them! If you go this route, I recommend that you order new ball joint ends first THEN damage your old ones. Remember that on one end of the rod ia a right-hand threaded ball joint, on the other end, a left-hand thread.

[Rosie]

Mark, are you implying that I take the rod off to put it in a vice?