Rivets.

[TedW]

So, I purchased some closed end rivets from Pegasus...How in the heck do you get the nail to break free?

I am using a regular hand rivet on these guys and they just won't break. I am also thinking about purchasing a pneumatic riveter...Anyone suggest one that works great?

Crankin: These sealed-end rivets are the best, but need more than a basic rivet gun to be installed. I went through a number of hardware store rivet guns before I learned my lesson. Even if you can squeeze the gun hard enough to snap the pin you will quickly wear out the gun - it won't hold the pin anymore.

My solution was to go to Grainger and buy a Marson "Big Daddy" rivet gun http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pc-1...gun-39010.aspx. (link for reference only - Grainger is much less $$$). Wicked awesome.

I had a rivet (if not riveting) discussion with our illustrious host, Mark Letourney, just yesterday. I prefer the genuine rivets (a bag from RN costs somewhat more than the Pegasus rivets, but that's just me).

[TedW]

Ted,

Sorry for the delay, been away from the boards for awhile. I bought a rivet tool that just fits over the head of the rivet and weighs several pounds. It might be for an air gun, but I just use it by hand. I hold pressure on the head of the rivet with the heavy tool (shaped for the rivet head) and I make sure that I have no gaps in the sheet metal that I am going to rivet (if there are gaps I use a small clamp to first draw the metal tight) then it's just a matter of hammering the back of the rivet to a nice mushroom shape. Very easy to do and I've had great results. I do believe that I am using the "dead soft" rivets though.

jp: I tried your technique out and it works great, especially if you have a helper to hold the bucking bar and enough room to swing the hammer. Given that, I can do a better job than with the air hammer. Thanks!

I'm about halfway through my project - photos coming...........

[greenmeanie]

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/

for the tool below

Bertha,
I'm dragging this oneout the archives but I'm about to buy the set for applying the rivets desceribed in this post. If you don't mind, to save me trolling through the pages of different sets, what was the part number or decription of your set tool in the picture.

[SafeAirOne]

Bertha,
I'm dragging this oneout the archives but I'm about to buy the set for applying the rivets desceribed in this post. If you don't mind, to save me trolling through the pages of different sets, what was the part number or decription of your set tool in the picture.

Once you find out which one you need, you can get them slightly cheaper at the YardStore.com if you are cost-sensitive. This is where I get all my aircraft-related tools. Of course the prices at ATS aren't that much more.

[Bertha]

Bertha,
I'm dragging this oneout the archives but I'm about to buy the set for applying the rivets desceribed in this post. If you don't mind, to save me trolling through the pages of different sets, what was the part number or decription of your set tool in the picture.

Will post the info tonight when I get home.

[Bertha]

Once you find out which one you need, you can get them slightly cheaper at the YardStore.com if you are cost-sensitive. This is where I get all my aircraft-related tools. Of course the prices at ATS aren't that much more.

Mark
Good tip-that place is a lot cheaper on some items

[StX_Rovers]

Jay-Cee Rivets I have found to be very helpful. The website is :

http://www.rivetsinstock.com/

I have got the tool for the hammer rivets there, both for the 3/16 and the 1/4" rivets that the under tub braces use. They also stock the closed bottom pop rivets. I broke down and bought a heavy duty rivet tool after smacking my knuckle incredibly hard trying to use a standard pop rivet tool. The first time I used the heavy duty rivet tool I forgot about the money it cost. One thing that makes the closed bottom rivets so hard to pop is that the mandrel (the nail looking thingy) is made out of steel, not aluminum.

For the hammer rivets I use the correct sized rivet tool, a body dolly and a hammer. Remember, you use the hammer and tool on the rivet head, not the other way around. Counter intuitive but it works. It sounds as if some people are holding the head and hitting the other side. You need to hit the head and hold the back up tool. Hitting the head actually draws the whole mess together.

Like RN, Jay-Cee rivets understands and has no problem using the US Mail, important if you live in the Virgin Islands.

Jay-Cee rivets also has riv nuts but only in coarse thread. The only source I have found for the fine thread nuts is RN.

[TedW]

For the hammer rivets I use the correct sized rivet tool, a body dolly and a hammer. Remember, you use the hammer and tool on the rivet head, not the other way around. Counter intuitive but it works. It sounds as if some people are holding the head and hitting the other side. You need to hit the head and hold the back up tool. Hitting the head actually draws the whole mess together.

Really???? I'll say it's counterintuitive. I've been holding the head and hammering the back, with marginal success (I blame my rookie riveter status). However, I just spent an hour in the basement doing it as you described, and it does seem to work better. Thanks!

I will use this technique on the corner trim, but I will likely use jp's technique for the row of rivets on the long trim rails that go though the paintwork. I don't want to risk trashing my paint.

[SafeAirOne]

...I've been holding the head and hammering the back, with marginal success (I blame my rookie riveter status). However, I just spent an hour in the basement doing it as you described, and it does seem to work better.

You can get acceptable results hitting the bucktail end of the rivet using a backriveter, but it is not the prefered method to install rivets. The spring-loaded nylon collar holds the sheets being riveted together and keeps the end of the tool on the bucktail.

Tool: http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,4456.html

[crankin]

OK, So, a few questions.

I bought the solid rivets that roverhaul used from bigflats...however, I am not sure if they are the correct lengths.

What are the correct lengths that I need?

Second, Bought the bucking bar from bigflats....and also got a Chicago rivet gun from ebay. When all this stuff comes in...does the bucking bar go on the head of the rivet (preformed round head side) or the other way around?

[SafeAirOne]

What are the correct lengths that I need?

The "grip length" of a rivet is the thickness of the material being riveted.

"D" is the diameter of the rivet being used.

Before being driven, solid rivets should protrude 1.5D (1 1/2 times the rivet diameter) PAST the materials being riveted. In other words, if you are using 1/8" diameter rivets, they should stick out 3/16" past the sheets being riveted.

So the formula to determine the correct rivet lingth is: Grip length + 1.5D

Second, Bought the bucking bar from bigflats....and also got a Chicago rivet gun from ebay. When all this stuff comes in...does the bucking bar go on the head of the rivet (preformed round head side) or the other way around?

The rivet set (driving tool) of the rivet gun should go against the factory head of the rivet. The bucking bar should be placed squarely against the non-head (bucktail) end of the rivet. You should keep driving the rivet until the bucktail squishes out to 1.5 times the rivet diameter and sticks out .5 the rivet diameter. See diagram, below:

[crankin]

Thanks! That clears things up.

[TedW]

The shank of the rivet gun should go against the factory head of the rivet. The bucking bar should be placed squarely against the non-head (bucktail) end of the rivet. You should keep driving the rivet until the bucktail squishes out to 1.5 times the rivet diameter and sticks out .5 the rivet diameter. See diagram, below:

Question: When I pull the trigger, should the domed head be held flush against the panel? If so, I would think that it would trash the panel.

Or...should there be some daylight between the domed head and the panel?

Or....something else?

[SafeAirOne]

Question: When I pull the trigger, should the domed head be held flush against the panel? If so, I would think that it would trash the panel.

Or...should there be some daylight between the domed head and the panel?

The bottom of the rivet head should be flat against the panel. The rivet set on the rivet gun should touch only the rivet and NOT the panel, because that'll really mess it up. See Attached diagram.

The top of the rivet doesn't really get worked. The rivet gun and rivet set just vibrate the rivet, The mass of the bucking bar vibrating against the rivet is what mushrooms the bucktail, cold working the metal and strengthening it at the same time.

[TedW]

The bottom of the rivet head should be flat against the panel. The rivet set on the rivet gun should touch only the rivet and NOT the panel, because that'll really mess it up. See Attached diagram.

The top of the rivet doesn't really get worked. The rivet gun and rivet set just vibrate the rivet, The mass of the bucking bar vibrating against the rivet is what mushrooms the bucktail, cold working the metal and strengthening it at the same time.

SafeAirOne: I guess I need to practice more, based upon your comments. I still don't quite get it - kind of thick today.

I assume there should be significant pressure on the bucking bar??