Looking into 2.5d or 200tdi in my series

[superstator]

good read - thx.

keep in mind this was in Brasil and he was not putting any additives into the fuel.

must be something to it though as International Motors made sure they placed a "warning" in the Defender manual not to use bio.


Jaime

What I'd heard was that some of the newest injection systems, especially common rail setups, run at high enough pressure to cause all but the most perfectly refined biodiesel to begin to break down and loose lubricity - the local bio-d refiner here in PDX has been telling people to hold off using anything more than B5 or at most B20 in anything newer than 2007 or so. Older stuff like the CAV DPA ran at much lower pressure and didn't have the same problem. I'd just assumed that the same applied to SVO as long as you either prewarmed it or had a lift pump strong enough to deliver it cold - I wasn't aware it had it's own lubrication issues, though it makes sense in retrospect.

[SafeAirOne]

good read - thx.

keep in mind this was in Brasil and he was not putting any additives into the fuel.

must be something to it though as International Motors made sure they placed a "warning" in the Defender manual not to use bio.


Jaime

Yeah--I probably wouldn't run strictly biodiesel, but I'd be willing to use it as an additive if I had a B100 supplier around here.

[Clembs]

I would actually be running veggie oil if i did a conversion. That way i could get it from local resturants and filter it. You really can get by with the additive only every once in a while. My friend had a veggie converted Merc 300. He had it hooked up to a switch between tanks. Flip it and you start smelling like Mc D's

[Tim Smith]

It should be noted that the Merc 300 diesel (70-80s era) has one of the most robust injection pumps of any out there. They are probably the best suited motor for running straight vegi if you ask me.

[Eric W S]

It should be noted that the Merc 300 diesel (70-80s era) has one of the most robust injection pumps of any out there. They are probably the best suited motor for running straight vegi if you ask me.

I wish the rovers were like this. Seems like work to get them to do anything outside the factory parameters...

EwS

[junkyddog11]

PA Blanchard in England lists brand new complete 2.5L military NA diesels. Although they are not inexpensive I personally would go this route if I was willing to cut and weld my galvanized frame. I'm looking into a Rover 2.25L diesel with getting a rebuilt stripped motor from Turner. I have been made very aware of the shortcomings of a Rover diesel by people on this forum but it is the least expensive route as far as I can determine.
Jim

Jim, its a great motor (the 2.5) as long as you aren't in a hurry, that's the only shortcoming I can think of. Runs fine on 100% Bio (been doing this for years with only having to change the spill lines). I've made "adaptor" mounts so you don't have to cut your frame AND yes you can leave your battery under the bonnet.

Putting a 200 tdi under the bonnet is a whole 'nother thing with many complications involved.

[CliftonRover]

I did a write up about my swap on terrian's page

[Lawrie]

2.5 and 200tdi available and experience

Several items per this post:

1) I will have two LR 2.5 na's for sale in 30 days complete with ancillaries, ready to bolt into series.
2) I may also have a Disco 200tdi complete with ancilaries, radiator,..: a) you can leave turbo off, and make it a 200di (see www.glencoe.uk,..) or b) leave turbo on, buy kit to twist exhaust around,,few other changes
Be careful with your foot as you will cook that gearbox
- will post in for sale section in a month or so

My thoughts:
-I had a low mileage 109 (Dirks old rig) with 5 bearing 2.25 petrol w/2.5 cam, rochester carb, large bore exhaust, electric fan (old Peugeot one) It went well - good torque, reasonable driving in hills. Consumed fuel.
-I then moved to d90 with 2.5 na diesel -same power as above petrol as but diesel torque makes it feel like more, but that long run in 3rd gear as it gradually comes up to speed makes it feel slow when bouncing between car and old rover. fuel consumption much better, torque makes it easier to drive, can stay in 3rd, vs having to downshift,... this had a LT 77 vs the 109 with S3 box and OD, so similar but still quite a bit more power to cruise at 65. noisier than petrol, but okay w/soundproof kit
-then moved to d110 300tdi/R380 and as we know - a whole other world. better fuel economy ~28 mpg, no smoke at start up, starts in cold, and so much more power, no comparison -Do not put 300 tdi in Series though.
-Had an 88" w/200tdi S3 box - kind of nutty, very loud, very peppy, very fun, really wants a modern gearbox behind it, or heavier 109 to calm it down. sold it before sound proof kit, ....
-currently running a 110 HICAP w/200tdi LT77 -this is great, plenty of power, smooth ride

Mercedes are old technology (240, 300d,) they smoke at startup, heavy.
Land rover engines are land rover, they bolt in (2.5 na and 200tdi) tdi is modern, cleaner engine, may be worth more money as your time is valuable, resale better, our Host RN will support 200tdi, 2.5 na,..
Note 200tdi into Series -do it right, modify bell housing bolts or you may blow rear main (see link above)

I have had great success with varying %'s of biodiesel up to ~95% all above diesels been okay with it (except did try it in a td5 -no go).
have to change fuel hoses on old 240d, old 2.5 for biodiesel, but pump seem fine - i don't want to collect veggie oil, nothing against it, just enjoy my 250 gallon summer tank of biodiesel, let it run out in late fall, another load in spring

lawrie

[Mercedesrover]

Mercedes are old technology (240, 300d,) they smoke at startup, heavy.

I have had great success with varying %'s of biodiesel up to ~95% all above diesels been okay with it (except did try it in a td5 -no go).

lawrie

Old technology? Hmmmm. Just squeezing oil. Not much technology there. If you mean Rover using a rubber belt instead of a chain, then yes, it's old technology.

The youngest 616/617 Benz diesel is now 24 years old and most are still going strong. 300k miles is easy with these engines and 500k miles is common. I don't think you'll see too many Rover diesel turning that many miles. (Not trying to bash Rover diesels. Just stating facts.)

The Benz isn't direct-injection like the newer Rover diesels and that may mean a little slower start in the morning, but that's about it. If you're getting heavy smoke out of a Benz diesel then it's probably worn out or you have other problems. But it is true they don't start as easily as a direct-injection engine.

As for burning biodiesel, it's really the same as regular diesel. It's burning vegatable oil where you run into trouble. The Benz will burn SVO or WVO with no modifications. I don't have first-hand knowledge but have heard the Rover diesel pump doesn't like veggie oil.

[Clembs]

has anyone ever tried a Volvo 240d engine? Those old 240s actually last forever. Honestly a Volvo P1800 '68 actually has the oldest non rebuilt daily engine/tranny of any car. The Today Show 2 years ago did a spot on the original owner and car. 1,800,000 at the time. Has anyone ever heard of that swap. The motors are dirt cheep (like $300).

[yorker]

has anyone ever tried a Volvo 240d engine? Those old 240s actually last forever. Honestly a Volvo P1800 '68 actually has the oldest non rebuilt daily engine/tranny of any car. The Today Show 2 years ago did a spot on the original owner and car. 1,800,000 at the time. Has anyone ever heard of that swap. The motors are dirt cheep (like $300).

The Volvo/VW diesels weren't that great- the 4 cylinder gas engines were pretty darned good though- someone in Mass or CT swapped one of those into his LR a few years back complete with the Volvo transmission (4spd IIRC) he was very happy with the result. I might have his email address somewhere- and I am sure some people on here know of him.

[Clembs]

hey man i can't believe the guy swapped out the tranny too. I agree about the 4cyl petrol engines lasting forever, the p1800 had pet. I had a '82 240 turbo. it was the only engine i have ever seen that is as easy to work on as a 2.25. Do you have any clue how the guy hooked up the transfer case? Not really sure but the old 240gl only had like 120hp and 0 troque. The turbo had 153hp or so. i really doubt i would ever swap a volvo but its a cool thought.

[Lawrie]

My apologies MercedesRover - I came across as negative. My daughter loves her 83' 240d - I have had several. I was getting at the fact that they are not as clean as newer Mercedes or other technology -
In light of this topic, my points were/are:
If you are going spend the time and money doing the swap, why not take it the the next step and go Direct Injection and how about Land Rover as the choice of manufacture. A few years ago this was not an option, now it is ~~within reach (still not cheap but possible to buy Disco 200tdi, and manifold kit, or do the "di" set up" I linked -
Or the 2.5 na a good option as cost lower, easier fit.
I agree apples to apples the mercedes is better built then rover 2.5 na.

My folks had a84' Volvo 240d, w/ the six cyclinder VW truck engine =huge torque, nice rythmn but it was smoky, and slow revving, and physically long.
Check out www.steveparkeruk -they have been doing conversions for years, back 10 years ago, i wanted to buy his Peugeot kit and put an 85 2.5 td in my 109.

[Mercedesrover]

No apology necessary. No offense taken.

Speaking of clean diesels, have you seen the new Mercedes diesels with the urea tank in the back? True. They inject synthetic urea into the exhaust to aid in lowering emissions. The tank needs to be replenished every 15k miles. It says right in the owner's manual "Do not urinate into the urea tank!". I'm dead-serious! Hahaha!!!!

[greenmeanie]

Surely you are taking the piss.