Found One!

[leafsprung]

I would rather have clean solid mechanicals/electrics etc, things that actually make the truck go.

Then your priorities are misplaced. Mechanicals and electrics are very cheap and easy to fix compared with rust. An entire brand new wiring harness is about 300 bucks, a good running used 2.25 motor is $500 to 1000. Both could be installed in a single weekend. You cant do that with a frame or firewall. Corrosion is more time consuming and more expensive to fix properly than mechanical/electrical issues. I would pay 6K for a completely rust free truck with no motor or wiring at all, before I would pay 6 grand for a rotbox. Im giving you the benefit of a lot of land rover experience here. Its up to you to listen.

[NickDawson]

Then your priorities are misplaced. Mechanicals and electrics are very cheap and easy to fix compared with rust. An entire brand new wiring harness is about 300 bucks, a good running used 2.25 motor is $500 to 1000. Both could be installed in a single weekend. You cant do that with a frame or firewall. Corrosion is more time consuming and more expensive to fix properly than mechanical/electrical issues. I would pay 6K for a completely rust free truck with no motor or wiring at all, before I would pay 6 grand for a rotbox. Im giving you the benefit of a lot of land rover experience here. Its up to you to listen.

This is where I'm probably failing myself by not being thorough in my responses. I hope I said *one* of my top criteria - but if not, then I misspoke...perhaps without thinking, its been a long day

From what I have learned from everyone on this forum in a short time, I would agree that a rust free, solid, straight vehicle is another top priority.

What I wanted to avoid were listings that suggested a good frame but an engine in buckets in someone garage - it may be true that you can drop in a running 2.25 in a weekend...and part of me would love that project... but I have to be realistic and balance both priorities. Something that runs well enough to drive it home (and hopefully around town) and a frame and chassis that won't cause heartache and a distant 3rd, something the neighbors won't try and have towed when I'm not looking ... a tall order at my price point

I am listening and learning - and the last thing I want to do is frustrate my helpers here. So I appreciate the patience.

I have no problem playing hard ball, but right now me under a truck with a hammer and screwdriver solicits more worried looks from owners than it does confidence in myself. Thats why I made the sale contingent on an inspection from a guy I trust.

That said, I'm going to be honest. If he says "hey Nick, you over paid by $500 and theres bondo on the door but its solid and should be a good ride...." well then live and learn but I'll be a happy owner and will look forward to the support when I start trying to change the oil

If he says "run away" - then I've learned another lesson, right?

Its important enough to me, that we are trying to change our schedules to get down there this weekend - the saga will continue and I'm excited to continue to report about it here.

[leafsprung]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but no inspection is needed, you can tell in the photos its had a significant amount of corrosion. Everything has been or is rusty: doors, tub, frame, firewall. Keep looking.

[rwollschlager]

something the neighbors won't try and have towed when I'm not looking .

They will get over it! When i dragged my 72 SIII 88 home my neighbors would walk past my house and asking me "what in the hell is that?" and tell me how bad it made my yard look. After they made that last comment i put it up on blocks and waited to see their reaction when they came strolling by again. I figured they put up with our other two rovers a third couldnt be a problem, i guess i was wrong...

[vkjar]

I don't disagree with anything anyone has said, but if you look back to what I first stated that I am basing my experience off of looking for a series truck in MY AREA. Where they have become scarce, and are now rarely seen on the roads. Most have likely moved west or to parts yards or somewhere else.

There seems to be an endless turn over of series trucks in the eastern US and also in the west. So with that in mind it is easy to say that there will be another one around the corner. You folks are lucky to have those chances. In my search over the years (12+) in looking off and on for the right truck for me I had the chance to look under most of the ones that came up for sale or that I knew of. There is a reason why I did not have a series truck earlier. I then took my search outside of Alberta and looked to both the east and west coasts for vehicals.

I have only seen two galvanized frames on a series truck in my area, Mine! and a 109 rebuild.

I kid you not most of you will choke at what series trucks go for north of the boarder. The one I mentioned with the patch work frame and a driveline that looked as if it had been dipped in tar, not to mention the paint brush paint job, missing parts, etc etc oh but it did have a pertronix ingition. The seller wanter 6K for it I would not have paid $500.

Vehicals here also have to pass a very rigid inspection especially out of province (not sure what it is like in the US) before being able to register or insure it, everything has to work properly not half assed. So in my case things that make the truck go were more important than a perfect body. It all depends on what is most important to you.

A rust free solid frame and firewall is a given because if one does their homework it is the first thing mentioned always. I am talking about the rest of the vehical

[jopa]

Trucks

Look further, better trucks are out there...Try this one...rust free in Colorado for $5300 with a tropical top and full soft top sale-yyjue-1110166993@craigslist.org -John in NY

[NickDawson]

Thanks again for the help and suggestions!

I'm still going to drive down (16 hours round trip, blurg!) and take it to Sean Jones to have inspected. If for nothing else, I need the education. With a few exceptions, the posts that say "there are better ones out there" just don't help me see what wrong with the one I'm looking at. I need the first hand education.

[Apis Mellifera]

It's missing some interior pieces and the rear spare mount. The rear lights aren't correct. It appears to have had the frame and rear tub patched. I suspect the foot wells have been patched and I'd bet there's a bondo'ed hole next to the accelerator. That said, it's not a bad looking truck and if it's mechanically sound, it should last many years as is. It has about a grand worth of wheels, tires, and seats.

My frame is garbage, much, much worse than that one, but my truck runs well and is safe, so I drive and enjoy it. It really depends on what you want. That truck looks fine to me. It's by no means perfect, but it's respectable and should provide plenty of smiles (until you need to R&R something like the steering relay). If there were a single Series for sale around here, it would be in worse condition and priced higher.

Regardless of want you pay, could you buy it, learn LRs, and then sell it and at least break even? If so, go for it. If you're looking to restore one, keep looking.

[NickDawson]

Just became a moot point - current owner has decided not to sell.

I know many of you will think thats a blessing in disguise - and perhaps it was. However, there was a lot to like there and I'm a little disapointed...but the search continues...

[adkrover]

I think the point is that it was a rot box that had been superficially fixed up. Like a rat trap house with new paint and carpet. It is indeed far easier to replace an axle and transmission than to replace a floor and bulkhead. Because....... to fix the floor and bulkhead you need to pull almost every other part of the truck.

[NickDawson]

I think the point is that it was a rot box

Right now, thats a bit like poking me with a sharp stick

It very well may be true, but what we *saw* was something that looked like it was in good shape and ready to ride around town in during the weekends. The paint look good to me and the interior looked in good shape. Now, the fact that she's no longer selling may have everything to do with my "inspection clause" that might have turned up something big...

Still, saying it was a rot box does not do a thing to tell me what to look for in the next set of photos I see. I'm trying to be a more educated buyer, but need some specifics...

I saw welds on the seatbelt posts and one body patch - is it just the experience that teaches folks that either of those two things indicate a rusted out car?

I saw the rust around the transmission tunnel - might be reasonable to assume that it would extend to the toe wells ... but again, is it just experience that suggest that? What if they had been repaired well? Doesn't seem like a reason to rule out a truck, or am I missing something there?

[SafeAirOne]

Still, saying it was a rot box does not do a thing to tell me what to look for in the next set of photos I see.

You can't tell if it was a "rot box" by the photos. You know that there is some rust in typical places but you need to see it in person or have it inspected by a knowledgable individual to see the extent of any corrosion, in my opinion.

I saw the rust around the transmission tunnel - might be reasonable to assume that it would extend to the toe wells

The rust around the transmission tunnel isn't that kind of rust--It's galvanic or "dissimilar metal" corrosion, which occurs when metals of different electrical potential come together. The tunnel cover is aluminum and the bulkhead is steel. This type of corrosion can often be found on the outside bottoms of the doors (the inner doorframes are steel, the skin is aluminum), and on North-American series IIIs, the body sides above the rear wheels (where the steel seatbelt anchors are riveted to the rear tub). That's where the patch is on the right side on the rover in your photos.

The other kind of rust is just plain old iron oxide found on the pure steel parts like the inside doortops, the entire bulkhead (firewall) including footwells, the doorposts, and chassis (frame) and chassis outriggers and crossmembers.

[adkrover]

Sorry about the sharp stick. I suspect you're right that the seller may have had concerns about the inspection clause.

The thing is that a rover exterior is mostly aluminum which doesn't rust. Therefore, on the surface it is easy to make it look good with a fresh paint job. For some reason, whether it's a form of electrolysis caused by dissimilar metals (steel and aluminum) or just that rover used cheap steel I don't know but the steel rusts out very quickly once it gets started. If you can find ex military truck you may have better luck as the MOD coated the steel to prevent the rust. Otherwise, you need to look for a vehicle from the far south (not near the coast as salt spray is bad) or the desert. If a rover has visible rust on the interior door structure, that's a pretty good sign that there is more to come.

I work on houses and have always found that it is better to purchase a house with a solid foundation and good framing that may need to be gutted and have all of it's mechanicals done over than to get a house that someone has spent a great deal of time and money to put new paint, carpet, cabinets etc into but has 60 year old plumbing and is sinking into the ground. The reason is that to make the proper repairs, you will have to rip out all of that new carpet that you just paid for by purchasing the house.

If you want to have a nice rover that will last you for a long time and have a good resale value, you need to start with one that has a solid frame and good steel. Don't be distracted by clean body skin and shiny paint. They all have good body skins unless they are obviously dented and a new paint job is cheap. Then you can start to tackle all of the other issues that it may have like leaky gears and weak axles.

Someone else here suggested that it is better to purchase a truck with a galvanized frame and fresh bulkhead without a motor at all and I agree. There are lots of good used parts out there that you can trade for to build up your truck.

[Jeff Aronson]

Interpreting Photos Before Purchase

Nick,

While I was writing this post, ADKRover posted very sage advice!

Land Rovers have different types of corrosion. The rust in steell we're all familiar with affects Rovers as it does on any old car. Generally speaking, rust begins inside and then extends outside. That's why frame rust is an issue; more often than not, the rust starts inside the frame box so that by the time you see it, it's no longer "surface rust." That's why you bring a hammer and screwdriver to the inspection. You're not trying to poke holes, but you are looking the see the extent of any rust.

Land Rover frames can be patched several times, and structural pieces like rear crossmembers and front "horns" can be purchased and welded in by a skilled welder. However, a rotting frame is hidden from view - often by a nice paint job on the body of the car.

The other steel pieces on the car are the bulkhead [firewall, toeboards, dash, windshield supports], the frames of the doors, the radiator panel ["breakfast'], and any plates riveted onto the alloy body to provide seat belt anchorages [seat box, rear tub of Series III's or aftermarket installations]. All of these are replaceable or repairable, but that will require time, money and skills - but it's all doable.

The other type of corrosion is galvanic, the result chemical action between dissimilar metals. That can happen when steel bolts hold pieces of aluminum alloy together. That's another reason that you see through "rust" at the seat belt anchorage points - in addition to rusting because they're steel, those plates can suffer from corrosion because they're steel on aluminum.

The good news for you is that you're becoming far more sophisticated in assessing the condition of a possible purchase. Even if you don't plan on driving the car very much, you want to know its condition before purchase so you can determine how much you'll need to spend over time to keep the car in good shape. You WILL want to drive the car a lot more than you think - they're quite addictive.

What a lot of people here are urging is that you buy the best "platform" - frame, suspension, bulkhead - possible. The drivetrain is very durable and far easier for the conscientious, patient owner to learn how to maintain and repair than is the welding of a frame or bulkhead. I had my Rover for over 75,000 miles and several years before it got its first paint; in 18 years of ownership, it's only had paint jobs twice [both times because of accidents with wandering wild animals]. My second Land Rover has not been painted since its manufacture in 1966 - no one in the Land Rover community cares .

Keep searching and posting your finds. Everyone here wants you to enter the Land Rover community!

Jeff

[NickDawson]

Thanks SafeAirOne, adkrover, Jeff Aronson - those posts are VERY helpful!

I understand the galvanic reaction all too well (don't ask), and I knew that the bodies were Al and the frames steel - but I had no idea that there were other parts involved in the equation. Thats very good to know.

Here are some take aways and my reaction - am I on track?

• Pictures can't tell us much, but do hold clues. In this case, seeing galvanic corrosion spots suggests that there is a systemic problem.
• paint is pretty but pointless - I get that intrinsically...but I guess I need to ask this: anyone have a clue what a body shop charges to spray a rover? How much of the prep can I do (sanding, etc) to reduce the expense? I'm not saying that I'm entirely superficial...but realistically if I buy something with a great frame and get it looking real pretty, is that within my price range?
• Frames are key - I get that but still pretty sure I can't tell that without a first hand inspection from an expert. That rules out buying a truck on the west coast unless someone I trust (from this forum for instance) is available for inspection. Not ruling that out by any means, just part of the logistics to consider (along with shipping)
• drive train and engines are usually solid - good to know b/c I'm still firm on the criteria that it has to run well. I understand that engines might be cheap and available, but I'm just not capable out buying a frame and tub and putting a motor in and getting any enjoyment out of the truck this summer... too much for this novice

So here's the next challenge (I do have a day job, I promise)

Below are some pictures from a truck that is being touted as a straight, solid frame with a good motor but in need of serious body work. It comes from a name that a lot of folks around here would know/trust. Its in the $5.5K range, so assuming my budget doesn't grow (and in this economy, how could it?) I'm still fixed at $8K

1) I'm seeing nothing but rust - am I mistaken? Does this appear to be in good condition to anyone else?

2) is it reasonable to think that with my own elbow grease that my remaining $2.5K I can spruce it up? I've started some calculations based on the RN catalog, so I know what fancy upholstery costs, but the my nagging paint question is still out there... then I have to think about tires, tops, etc...but maybe those things wait a year or two.

3) for that matter - what would *you* do to it (assuming I'm wrong about #1)

4) general reactions (including the breather being off the engine and in the back)

The entire set:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickdawson/sets/72157617516009384/