Found One!

[NickDawson]

Am I learning anything?
I look at this one and see rusted foot wells as well as galvanic corrosion on doors. So that alone should tell me that its likely to have some deep seated rust issues elsewhere like the frame?

[Eric W S]

Solid huh?

First impressions from the pics attached:
1. Wiring needs to be sorted.
2. New fuel pump? Why? (Newer pumps can be problematic)
3. Dash is completely hacked up with a poorly done aux panel and a glove box? (Just poorly done overall; holes in the bulkhead could lead to rust)
4. Needs new seats (can get pricey and they are important; red looks terrible)
5. Springs are sagging (Solid huh? With rusted springs? It'll drive terrible)
6. Tie rod ends look old (It'll most likely steer like crap with old TRE; They are cheap and easy to replace so why haven't they been, it s a safety issue IMO)

After a quick look at the Flickr album, no real pics of the frame, Bulkhead or the drive train. Those are the only ones you need.

IMO, I'd offer no more than $2k for the truck. I wouldn't call that a solid truck by any means. It'll take 6k to get it to where you want it to be, without paint.

As far as paint, talk to body shops. There is no national average. I am having my 65 repainted panel by panel for around 4k. But that is stripped bare and brought to the body shop clean. Base/Clear. I was going to have a single coat done, but the price went up quite a bit.

[NickDawson]

Solid huh?


IMO, I'd offer no more than $2k for the truck. I wouldn't call that a solid truck by any means. It'll take 6k to get it to where you want it to be, without paint.

Thanks - that was my first reaction as well...a total mess.
I just needed to make sure I was on the right track... regardless of what the frame looks like, that appears to be a total nightmare.

That said - its also starting to confirm the $12+K price range I am seeing for decent trucks (IE "restorations" )

[leafsprung]

Im going to say there isnt enough in terms of pictures to evaluate that truck, no good footwell or frame shots, no overall shots. Some shots of mostly meaningless detail. All the issues you can see are relatively minor considering the price. Does need a new suspension though. In general I like it better than the red one, but that could change with pics. There is a series three 88 in WA for 6K, wagon with a galv frame and new bulkhead. Might be ok. Its on craigslist, might be a good one to look over. I also have a 1966 3 door 109 with no rust issues or previous rust repairs in your price range. There are plenty of good trucks under 7K. Seriously. You havent even scratched the surface of the resources available to you.

[Clembs]

man that looks like a dog, or at least should be around 2,000-2,500. I bought mine this time last year for 4,000 and the guy was going to take 3,200. Mine needed shocks and springs but it had a RN galv frame and very good body just had been in a field so it needed a good detail. Take a look at my pics (if they show up). I have 6,000 total in mine and that is with new wheels and tires, rocky Mt. parabollic springs and Old man emu shocks, new exhaust, and a bumch of other stuff. I live in va/ nc and you can find them all over if you look.

[Eric W S]

Thanks - that was my first reaction as well...a total mess.
I just needed to make sure I was on the right track... regardless of what the frame looks like, that appears to be a total nightmare.

That said - its also starting to confirm the $12+K price range I am seeing for decent trucks (IE "restorations" )

I really don't think there are that many decent trucks. A decent truck would be one from Ike, Lanny Clark, the Land Rover Ranch, or Timm Cooper. ECR and Brit Northwest on the second tier..

All rovers have issues. Solid ones have cheaper ones...

[greenmeanie]

Some comments:
Eric is pretty accurate about the first truck with pictures. The picture of the splash guard towards the end suggets footwells that have rust. If it is not through yet it is well on its way. The front frame horn shows perforation from rust so just walk away.

The second truck actually doesn't look too bad. The chassis looks pretty sound and between the waxoyl and that huge oil leak at least the back half has been well protected. The bulkhead looks like surface rust but I would ask for detail shots of the top corners, door posts and the footwells to be sure. Looking inside the engie bay the bulkhead looks pretty clean which is a good sign that it should be in good nick.

The paint on the inside is worn and looks original which is a good sign that the the owner isn't trying to hide stuff with a quick paint job. The body is stright and other than the odd dent looks pretty good. The doors are questionable so I would ask for more photos of the frames. In the grand scheme of things rot there is common and they are not difficult to replace so I wouldn't let that prevent purchase. Those tyres will be interesting on a DD commuter but that is up to personal preference and again they are easily swapped.

Some general comments would be:
When it comes to the steering the TRE's can be checked pretty easily. The thing that I would look at is the bars themselves. They are often bent, the clamps can be faulty and the tube itself rusts from the inside like the chassis and can fail catastrophically. You should inspect these on ANY truck you buy.

Seats. If you plan on this being a DD commuter put in good quality high backs and inertia belts. In heavy traffic this could save your life in a rear end shunt. There are several options out there that can be had from the scrappy. Jeep seats are an easy and cheap conversion.

Beware the MOD. Any ex MOD truck needs very, very careful inspection. That undercoat on the chassis may have worked very well for the first decade or two but as it ages it cracks and peels and traps water against the steel of the chassis. It is now rotting from the inside and outside. The stuff is a pig to remove too.

The other thing to find out is where and with whom the truck served. Ex RAF trucks are generally the best having lived their lives in a controlled and maintenance intensive environment. Beware ex Royal Marine trucks which have usually had the odd dip in the Atlantic or some other beach vacation. Beware ex Airborne trucks as the boys with the red berets have a bad habit of throwing them out of the back of Hercy birds. Bent and cracked chassis are common. An ex mod truck should have its service plate attached which will give its military reg #. Talk to the EMLRA before you buy one of these.

[NickDawson]

Re first truck: The front frame horn shows perforation from rust so just walk away.

When it comes to the steering the TRE's can be checked pretty easily. The thing that I would look at is the bars themselves. They are often bent, the clamps can be faulty and the tube itself rusts from the inside like the chassis and can fail catastrophically. You should inspect these on ANY truck you buy.

Seats. If you plan on this being a DD commuter put in good quality high backs and inertia belts.

Beware the MOD. Any ex MOD truck needs very, very careful inspection.

Edited to add - think I've gotten myself confused about which truck is which.
For my own sanity...
First truck = shiny red (the one off the market now)
Second = rusty $5.5K
Third = Green on Ebay.

More questions ...

1. re first truck: what is a "frame horn" ?
2. As for the seats on truck #2 - no question... first order of business (also because I think its the thing I could to on my own the most easily) would be to order seats and belts from RN and install them- so as far as I'm concerned, its part of the budget for that particular truck.
3. TREs - while I feel like I could spend a few weekends and figure out tire rod ends and maybe replace them, it also sounds like a big bag of hurt.... definitely not something we can buy and have my wife drive to the garden center next weekend...its going to be a project to get into driving condition (ok, that was a statement, not a question)
4. What tells you its military? the antenna on the side? - assumed we were talking about #2 - in retrospect I think you were referring to ebay green (#3)
5. what is EMLRA?

Thanks as always!
-N

[greenmeanie]

Nick,
The frame horns are the front part of the chassis leg where the forward front spring mounting is located. The design of the drainage in the box frame here is poor and this tends to be one of the areas that gets soft first. Have a good look at where the front bumper mounts to the chassis and you'll be in the right area.

At your price range it is time and money well spent to go through the entire steering system. Overhaul any worn parts, lubricate and set it up properly and it will make one of the most significant changes in your enjoyment of how the truck drives. Buy the manual and it is not rocket science.

Military trucks have many guises. There are 88s, 109 GS, 109 FFR and 109 CL. More easily identified are the lightweight (See jac04's posts) and the big ugly 101 but that is rather outside the scope here.

EMLRA is the Ex Military Land Rover Association who are a club over in the UK. They are generally considerd to be the authority on ex MOD landies.

EMLRA

Their website will tell you all you need to know about identification, pros and cons.

[shortbutslow]

Nick -

First of all - kudos for finding the board and asking the questions. Any old car or truck has its specific set of "things" that can bite you and the more you know up front the better.

You are getting great advice here from people who know and use these trucks. From reading through the posts it seems you're going through the process of learning what to look for - not shiny paint but rust, mechanicals and other signs of work (and money) to come. One thing that hasn't been mentioned - if this is your first I would recommend driving one a bit so you know what you're getting into. They look great but compared to modern vehicles are relatively slow, noisy, ride hard, are tough to steer and basically are not for everyone. And hopefully you enjoy solving mysteries and like to do mechanical work on old trucks

I bought my first last year. Since it was not my first old car/truck I did a bunch of research on models, part availability, features, issues, improvements, etc. Then I looked at several and created a spreadsheet with features I wanted, known issues, and costs. Get some parts catalogs or go online and familiarize yourself with how much things are to replace. Do you care about an overdrive, lockout hubs, high compression head? You may if you want to take it on the highway. Most Slla transmissions are not synchronized in 1st and 2nd gear so you have to double clutch - is that a factor? If you plan to drive it in the winter look for a heater, if you plan to drive without the hard top you'll probably want a tailgate and maybe a soft top (soft tops are fairly expensive to add later).

As Ike says, start with a solid frame and firewall. In your price range you should be able to find a good solid truck - minimal rust, pretty straight body and good servicable mechanicals. And it may even look nice, but that should be at the bottom of the list.

PM me if you want - I'd be happy to share more of my newbie experiences. LRs are great fun but take your time at this stage - it will pay you back later.

Clay

[NickDawson]

I would recommend driving one a bit so you know what you're getting into. They look great but compared to modern vehicles are relatively slow, noisy, ride hard, are tough to steer and basically are not for everyone.
Clay

Clay - thanks!
Believe it or not, I have driven series trucks a fair amount for a guy who doesnt own one (and I grew up driving a tractor...not much different )

In regards to syncromesh - its one of the reasons I'm preferring (but not stuck on) IIIs... double clutching doesn't bother me, but doesnt excite me either. Its going to drive my wife nuts. I'm sure I'll be the driver 90% of the time, but she'll want to use it for those afore mentioned trips to the garden center.

I ordered the "Green Bible" this week and have been getting the RN catalog for years ... looking forward to reading the repair manual for some the procedures that have been discussed in this thread.

[Eric W S]

Clay - thanks!
Believe it or not, I have driven series trucks a fair amount for a guy who doesnt own one (and I grew up driving a tractor...not much different )

In regards to syncromesh - its one of the reasons I'm preferring (but not stuck on) IIIs... double clutching doesn't bother me, but doesnt excite me either. Its going to drive my wife nuts. I'm sure I'll be the driver 90% of the time, but she'll want to use it for those afore mentioned trips to the garden center.

I ordered the "Green Bible" this week and have been getting the RN catalog for years ... looking forward to reading the repair manual for some the procedures that have been discussed in this thread.

Transmissions can be swapped easily between a 2 and a 3. In fact you can swap a whole lot of stuff between them.

[NickDawson]

Spoke with a guy a few hours from me who has 20 rovers on his property and specializes in engine swaps... for whatever reason...

He's got some options that sound like things this group would love. $3K for trucks that are solid, rust free, straight bodies but with virtually no paint and mostly non-running.

So, I source a motor (his GM rebuilds are pricey), and a transfer box (also needed) and get it painted.... sounds like for my budget I could get a really rover for $7-$8K. But honestly, I'm not skilled for that kind of work- I'll spend the rest the year just trying to get it running.

Thats when I fall for the shiny paint special again...

[jac04]

Lots of good advice here regarding buying an old Rover.
I'll chime in with some personal experience: Don't buy a vehicle that wasn't imported into the US to begin with. If you do (like I did ), you may find yourself needing parts that are difficult and/or very expensive to obtain. Late Series III vehicles (from the 80's) have things like different (metric) brake fittings, different stub axles/oil seals, and different axles than the older SIII vehicles sold new in the US.

[vkjar]

Not sure if you have seen this link to this page in your research but it gives a you a base line of what to look for when buying a series truck. not to mention all the other usefull info the website has.

http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.look_for.html

The best thing to do like everyone has mentioned is take your time. Grab a pair of old work cloths and a mat/cardboard/carpet etc and a hammer and screwdriver and spent the time on your back getting dirty and oily going over every inch of the frame and bulkhead. (oh and don't forget something to cover your eyes and hair, I always seem to get a chunck of oily dirt in my eye and or hair when I am under my truck)

By spending the time on your back you will also get to see how bad the oil leaks are and where they may be comming from. Also something to consider are fluids leaking onto your brakes including the transmision parking brake these are very important areas to inspect and can and will be a safety hazard if contaminated.

These truck do leak oil so when you finally get one don't park it on your new brick driveway, or parking pad if you are concerned about oil stains on the ground.

The more trucks you look under and check out the more you will become familiar with the problem spots. and whaat a dog looks like and what a solid one looks like.