Starter spinning but not engaging well

[NickDawson]

So yesterday I started looking for CB radios... just feels like a nice thing to have for off roading.

You all probably know my theory that my truck senses when I am about to do something cosmetic or related to creature comforts. Well when I went to drive to the gym this morning I turned the key, the started cranked a few times like normal and then it sounded as though it was just spinning. I heard the whrrrrr but not the chug-chug that sounds like the engine turning over. I backed off the key and tried again and it started right up.

After leaving the gym the symptoms were the same but lasted much longer. It really sounds like something spinning but not engaging.

Some may recall my ignition issues over the summer - there were times that I'd crank the starter for 30 seconds - 1 minute at a time. Any chance I have burned it out?

Before I get into hard core diagnostic work, could this be related to my adjusting the timing this weekend? It really seems to be running well with the ever so light retarding that I did, I can't imagine its so far off that it would manifest this way - particularly with the sound.

[4flattires]

Timing related? Nah.

Starter have two major processes going on:

1. Rotation of the armature (windings)
2. Engagement of the starter drive (to the flywheel).

The action all happens when the the starter rotation throws the starter drive (gear) out to the flywheel. When the gears dont engage, the starter just whirls, and no smoke comes out the tail pipe.

The starter drive has a spring, and a one way ratcheting mechanism. Sounds like your starter drive may be worn/gummed up, or (worse yet), you have a section of teeth missing from the flywheel (rare).

Pull and inspect.

Jeff

[bmohan55]

Every couple of months I have to take my starter out and clean up the spring and drive gear, especially after mudding it. I think junk get in through the drain hole in the flywheel housing and gums up the shaft that the drive gear slides on. Do not use oil on it as it would just attract more gunk, I use a citrus based cleaning solvent that my good friends here at the plant supply me with.

BTW, you really don't have to pull the starter all the way out to expose and clean the shaft (see other thread on pulling starter). Also be careful when disconnecting the power to it, use two wrenches, one to remove the nut and one to prevent the bolt from turning inside of the starter...bad things can happen if it does. Of course disconnect the battery first!

[kevkon]

Your starter solenoid is probably bad.

[Terrys]

As others have said, your starter shaft probaly has congealed oil on it. Take it off and spray it off with carb & choke cleaner. If you have a leaky rear main seal, this will contribute to it, and it's always worse in winter (ask me how I know, hand cranking every cold morning till I had time to pull it and clean it)
It's definately not your solenoid.

[4flattires]

Your starter solenoid is probably bad.

I would agree with this if it was an integral mounted solenoid, like a GM. Being that the starter is spinning, the Rover solenoid has done its job.

Jeff

[NickDawson]

Thanks guys!
Looks like yet another crash course in mechanics :/
On the way home tonight things got really wacky... My old nemesis the idle issue reappeared.
Some may recall back in the summer I had an issue where if took my foot off the gas at all it stalled out. Well, thats back. Last time it was the idle fuel cut off solenoid....I'll have to check it. I have the timing set exactly back where it was before this weekend, so I think I can rule that out.

Oh, any my heat appears to be broken - suspect the fan.

I love my rover... I love my rover... I love my rover... I love my rover... I love my rover... If I keep saying it then I'll believe it, right?

[kevkon]

If the starter is turning and not engaging the flywheel, it's either a bad solenoid or no teeth.

[Richard]

If the starter is turning and not engaging the flywheel, it's either a bad solenoid or no teeth.

I think KevKon is talking about a non-rover starter.

Like others have said, when my starter motor spins but doesn't engage, it is because the shaft is gummed up. The gear just spins on the base of the shaft and doesn't get flung up the helix to the end - where it would mesh with the teeth on the flywheel.

-Richard

[brucejohn]

I love my rover... I love my rover... I love my rover... I love my rover... I love my rover...

Hang in there Nick. YOU are one of the reasons I kept going. Within a month of bringing my first rover home last summer I discovered serious chassis cancer. My better half was nonplussed. My parents were sure I could have run down the street dropping hundred dollars bills and saved money -they may have been right =), but never mind them. It was posts like your search and subsequent success over adversity that showed me the best of this forum convincing me I could replace or repair the chassis and refurbish her to smooth running condition with the help of all the knowledge available here.

These trucks are tinker toys and you already understand more about mechanical things than you think. If it can be repaired in the bush, you can do it in suburbia. Just focus on that smile you get when you drive her away from the curb leaving mediocrity behind.

I love my rover... I love my rover... I love my rover... I love my rover... I love my rover...

[4flattires]

This prior post seems appropriate:

She’s leaky and she’s squeaky
At speed she’s rather freaky
You’ll bust your knuckles weekly
It’s a Series Land Rover

Da Da Da Da click click (that’s the starter not starting)
Da Da Da Da click click (that’s the valves tapping)
Da Da Da Da
Da Da Da Da
Da Da Da Da click click (That’s the gears stripping)

Now....betcha hum that tune for at least an hour!

Jeff

[I Leak Oil]

If the starter is turning and not engaging the flywheel, it's either a bad solenoid or no teeth.

Or a bendix that is stuck as others have suggested. This is a very common issue with the lucas starter. At some point, nearly all of them do it.

[NickDawson]

Now....betcha hum that tune for at least an hour!

Jeff

Funny thing is, I was humming that all way home last night!

These trucks are tinker toys and you already understand more about mechanical things than you think. If it can be repaired in the bush, you can do it in suburbia. Just focus on that smile you get when you drive her away from the curb leaving mediocrity behind.

Great point - thanks for the encouragement!

Hopefully I'll get a chance this week to check out the starter and hopefully it will be an easy fix.
Not sure about the idle cut off and lack of heat though...one step at a time

[NickDawson]

Alright! I'm back at it... I spent most of March not thinking about the Rover (b/c I was busy skiing - seriously rough life I tell you).

Its going to be a nice weekend here and I've enlisted some help to tackle a few Rover projects including the starter. I took a crack at it a few weeks ago and discovered that I don't have a wrench or socket that fits the two bolts to get it out - anyone have a clue what size they are? I have pretty complete sets of each.

I'm a little confused about this idea of not having to take it all the way out. I suppose that will become clear once we get into it, but can anyone elaborate? Can I simply un-do the two bolts, pull it out part way and start cleaning? Is that the basic idea? If I do have to remove it completely it looks like it means removing the exhaust... I'm 99% sure if I do that, there will be many massive other problems that result from the rusty bolts involved.

Thanks all!
-N

quick edit to add - just found Mohan's thread here: http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/sh...t=starter+spin
Sounds like the plan of attack is pretty straight forward as described above. Regarding the suggestion of graphite - yes or no?
To echo the quote

this is why I didn't hesitate on buying this truck despite my limited mechanical experiance..simple vechicle and wealth of support!
Reply With Quote

- could not agree more!

[Rineheitzgabot]

I'm with Jeff.

The shaft/gear/spring assembly probably needs lubed.

I recently had a thread related to starters as well. You are probably correct, the exhaust may interfere with removing it all the way, but as someone suggested, just remove the two bolts that hold the starter, and pull it out as far as it goes. This will give you access to where all the areas that need lubed are.

It will be a 1/2" wrench/socket, needed to do this. One bolt is accessed from above, and one from below. These are studs that hold on the starter, not bolts, FYI. Once the drive gear and shaft are exposed, lube the hell out of it, and perhaps try scrubbing with a soft toothbrush if it is gummed up. Once lubed, spin the gear on the shaft until it moves freely. This really is not hard. You can do this yourself. After removing the nuts from the studs, the whole process should take no longer than 10 minutes. I excluded the nuts in the time, because there's no telling what shape they are in, and if you have long enough extensions, to make removing them expediant. Also, if it is like mine, you screw the nuts off most of the way, to a point where the nut binds up on the stud, then the studs start unscrewing, which just adds more time, but no big deal.

I am not an expert on lubricants, but I am not sure what happens when mixing a dry lubricant with a wet one (assuming that the drive gear already has residual oil on it). I would probably stick with wet lube. Just me.

Hope this helps.
Gary