wont idle without choke

[NickDawson]

I'm back at it...
So for a while I've had this problem, but had been more focused on other things. Wander's recent thread about a gas smell in the cabin prompted me to dig a little deeper into my own issues.

I started with the timing gun this morning, boy was that sucker out of time. I pulled up some old notes that Jeff A had been kind enough to write and found this:

If it's not, then stop the car and loosen the distributor clamp nut somewhat, leaving enough tension so it's not moving on its own. Start the car again and slowly turn the distributor; with the strobe light on you'll see that the light hits the pointer/notch more exactly. Once they are lined up properly, then tighten the clamp bolt and you're all set.

My 2.5L has 5 or 6 marks with a 6 Degree mark on the left most mark. I set it smack in the middle

when I gave it some gas, it popped a few times, then backfired badly and died. So I move it to the 6 degree mark, popped and gurgled more with gas... so I went to the far right which was not much better either... so I settled on the middle.

It sounds much better at idle now, but still requires some choke, even when hot. It also pops (unburnt fuel in the exhaust?) when I let off the gas.

The hesitation at full throttle is better, but still present.

Any thoughts? With a little choke, and me ignoring unburnt fuel pops, it does seem to be running better now...

(for the record, I'm close to blaming the seafoam)

[griswald]

wont idle without choke

Nick,
I am no expert, but I would check and gap your points, and replace the condensor...

Good luck
Griswald

[daveb]

check all the jets are clear and correctly seated. not going to tell you how to do that though, RTFM

[Wander]

Sounds like you on the path Nick. You mentioned prior that you might have crud in your tank and filter. I would get the fuel flow sorted, check and/or replace the air filter and intake and check the plugs and wires. You may have already gone this route. It sounds like the timing adjustments aren't quite settling the idle problems so make sure the air/fuel/spark is solid and then go to the jets in the carb. In the "which carb" thread is was mentioned that the Weber is often under jetted which would fit with your issues (too restrictive).

Good Luck!

[daveb]

Don't ever touch the carb until you've made sure timing accurate, gap/dwell within tolerance, and valves adjusted. then begin to address the air/fuel intake and then and only then adjust the carb.

pulling and checking jets is easy, and the weber/lean connection is for the 34ICH as fitted to series trucks. This is a different- it's the 2barrel as fitted to early 90/110 2.25 and 2.5 petrol engines. google search on the spec of the carb will turn up good info. 32/34 DMTL or something like that. not to be confused with the DGV series, totally different carb.

Sounds like you on the path Nick. You mentioned prior that you might have crud in your tank and filter. I would get the fuel flow sorted, check and/or replace the air filter and intake and check the plugs and wires. You may have already gone this route. It sounds like the timing adjustments aren't quite settling the idle problems so make sure the air/fuel/spark is solid and then go to the jets in the carb. In the "which carb" thread is was mentioned that the Weber is often under jetted which would fit with your issues (too restrictive).

Good Luck!

[NickDawson]

Thanks all - I did some work today and thought I'd made progress...I'm not sure that is the case, but I think I've found a/the problem.

First I checked the gap on the points as per the WSM - they were a little narrow so I opened them up to 38mm - which seemed to help the putter when I left off the gas... although after a test ride around town, I'm not sure it helped that much.

The fuel lines are clear, I feel good about delivery.

Since it was the cause of much angst before, and against Daveb's good advice, I checked the carb, the cut off solenoid to be exact. I pulled it and it seems its natural state is to be extended. I tried connecting it directly to the batter and it would not retract. Is that a valid enough test to determine that it is in fact broken?

[Nium]

point gap

Hope you mis-typed Nick
Point gap should be between 0.014" - 0.016" which would be 0.3556mm - 0.4064mm so setting to 38mm would be way out of adjustment but if ya meant 0.38mm that shouldn't be too bad. After readjusting point gap reset timing as it will have changed with new gap setting.

Cheers

[NickDawson]

Hope you mis-typed Nick
Point gap should be between 0.014" - 0.016" which would be 0.3556mm - 0.4064mm so setting to 38mm would be way out of adjustment but if ya meant 0.38mm that shouldn't be too bad. After readjusting point gap reset timing as it will have changed with new gap setting.

Cheers

Thanks Nium - you are absolutely correct, I mis-typed. Yeah, not sure I could get the points to 38mm wide! I used the 0.015" feeler gauge since it was right between the WSM's suggested 0.014" - 0.016".

I did reset the timing to the middle notch, that's where I had the best luck before. The manual says to adjust according to fuel quality but doesn't get more specific than that.

[NickDawson]

I love my truck...I love my truck...I love my truck...

So I went to drive it yesterday and it won't start...
It will putter and almost catch with the accelerator floored, but as soon as I let off the starter motor it dies.

I'm fairly sure I have spark, I'm sure I have fuel pressure up to the carb (in fact, when I pull the hose off there is a lot of pressure built up)...and I know its never the carb, but I think this time it might be the carb

I looked down the barrels and pumped the throttle, normally I think I can see gas squirting in, this time I see nothing. So I pulled the jets. This one, below, in particular is badly clogged. In fact, shouldn't I be able to thread something all the way through it? As you can see by this picture, I can only get that pen in about 1/2 of an inch. Whatever is in there is not budging.

If I had sediment that made it past the filters and got stuck in the jets, that would explain the poor idle and now not starting, right?

Also, and DaveB is going to love me asking this question, how do I identify which Weber it is?

[daveb]

Dude, you need to get your hands on some basic auto mechanics textbooks from the mid seventies or so, and read them cover to cover. NEVER stick a pin or a wire into a passage or jet on a carb for any reason. You will most likely ruin it. The jet in your picture is a main jet attached to an emulsion tube. It should slide off the tube. I've used carb cleaner and thick monofilament to poke jets through.

Since you don't want to do ANY research or learning on your own, rather you prefer to take up the time of others, it is frustrating and annoying to help you. You don't take a morsel of information that you are given and use it as a basis for exploration and further learning. Rather, you just plunder ahead until you fock something up and then come back and repeat the same basic question. I already told you what carb you had but your head was too far up your tailpipe to notice.

A while back I asked you for your engine number and you still have yet to provide that. Do you own a manual for this car? Have you opened it? Do you know what engine you have and what vehicle it came out of, and do you own the manual for that car?

Here, maybe this will help you.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2360824/Weber-DMTL-3234

[Wander]

Dude, you need to get your hands on some basic auto mechanics textbooks from the mid seventies or so, and read them cover to cover. NEVER stick a pin or a wire into a passage or jet on a carb for any reason. You will most likely ruin it. The jet in your picture is a main jet attached to an emulsion tube. It should slide off the tube. I've used carb cleaner and thick monofilament to poke jets through.

Since you don't want to do ANY research or learning on your own, rather you prefer to take up the time of others, it is frustrating and annoying to help you. You don't take a morsel of information that you are given and use it as a basis for exploration and further learning. Rather, you just plunder ahead until you fock something up and then come back and repeat the same basic question. I already told you what carb you had but your head was too far up your tailpipe to notice.



A while back I asked you for your engine number and you still have yet to provide that. Do you own a manual for this car? Have you opened it? Do you know what engine you have and what vehicle it came out of, and do you own the manual for that car?

Here, maybe this will help you.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2360824/Weber-DMTL-3234

Wow, nice way to help someone.......
So what if he's asking questions, isn't that why we're all here??? If you don't want to answer his question, move on to another thread, it's nothing to get that upset over. We all start at square one so let's help eachother not tear each other down.

[daveb]

Matt

I'm sure your reply makes sense from your perspective. I don't know you so I can't really say for sure. There are lots of people on here who like to spend time looking through the threads and helping where we can. I do get an enormous sense of satisfaction from solving problems and learning by listening and doing. When someone gives me a piece of information I try to use that information as a springboard to solve my problem. I will (and always do) exhaust every resource available to me before burdening the group or individual with another question that I could easily answer myself.

I am not going to skip threads and one person's post just because they are ignoring basic ettiquette of the teacher/student relationship. (and face it, if you are online posting questions to a public forum, you are a student-we all are from one time to another) I do want to help. But I want to help people like Nick learn to become self sufficient in their travels and not have to rely on a web forum for others to do the work for them. I think it will help them enjoy their Land Rovers more, and keep them for longer instead of getting frustrated and moving onto the next thing.

So, sorry if it offends your sense of what is polite. Nick didn't come here for people to be polite to him, he came here looking for advice to help make his Land Rover run better. He keeps coming back with questions that he might not have to even ask if he would crack a textbook or even consult google from time to time. He has not completed homework assignments he has been given and by these ommissions has earned the barbs.

So far I have yet to see anyone chime in and really offer much in the way of useful advice in this thread, so I am going to keep trying to help, as it is my thoughtful and giving nature to do. After all, I get help from the experts when I humbly ask for it, and he should too. But the difference is that I pay it back to the community by helping others and sharing the information I have learned in the process. And not burdeing others with too many simple questions that could be easily answered elsewhere. Maybe that is just my upbringing. There seems to ber a number of people out there that think you can maintain or restore a Land Rover just by asking every single question to a panel of people on a forum or mailing list somewhere. But if you don't learn to distill that information and use ti to gain real knowledge, you will never learn anything and ultimately you will fail and be disappointed.

In that vein, I don't think mine is an unreasonable position to take. Well... already more than enough time spent answering this comment. Hope that helps.

Nick, hows it going? Get that engine number yet? Find the manual in english? LOL...

Wow, nice way to help someone.......
So what if he's asking questions, isn't that why we're all here??? If you don't want to answer his question, move on to another thread, it's nothing to get that upset over. We all start at square one so let's help eachother not tear each other down.

[Les Parker]

Carb. dilema

Well, calm down folks, please !!

Nick, please post a pic. of the carb. you are working on.
From skimming through the posting thus far, a 2 barrel Weber seems favourite.
There should be a brass tag on one of the float bowl screws. That data would be useful.

Looking forward to some pix/data ,

[Nium]

Paint can of carb clean

If the emulsion tubes and jets are clogged then a soak in a heavy duty carb clean will clear them up. At the local auto parts look for what looks like a 5 gallon metal paint can, that's the stuff. It will probably say something about being a cleaner for carbs too. I forget the name of the stuff. A convenient dipping basket is supplied with it too. Just don't soak parts for to long (overnight) as it can ruin any special finishs on carb parts like on the float bowl.

Regards

[bmohan55]

Last time I priced that can of carb cleaner at NAPA it was $55!!!!!!! Kerosene is "almost" as good. If you don't have a compresser to blow out the carb get a couple cans of compressed air used on circurt boards. Luckily the mechanics here at work warned me about poking wires thru the carb in an attempt to clean it, or I'd had done the same thing.