wont idle without choke

[daveb]

In my experience, carbs do not get gummed up to the point where they need the magic carb cleaner unless they are sitting unused and full of gas for years. I've taken apart and rebuilt dozens of carbs and I just haven't seen it. I've owned two of the type that Nick has and the biggest problem seems to be the jets coming unscrewed and the choke vacuum tube cracking or popping off. Oh, and leaking from the throttle shaft after you turn off the engine. The upper solenoid is supposed to open an air passge to the float bowl to bleed off the pressure of the expanding fuel in the float bowl but it doesn't really seem to work.

[kevkon]

I believe Nick said that there was no fuel coming from the accelerator nozzle and there was built up fule pressure at the inlet line. That pretty much is indicative of a clogged inlet filter or float needle assembly.

[daveb]

mis read that the first time though it said you were getting fuel.

check or change the accelerator pump diaphragm.

normally I think I can see gas squirting in, this time I see nothing.

[NickDawson]

Thanks all! As always, I'm immeasurably appreciative of the help and advice - in addition to the other folks I'm talking to, things I'm reading, research, etc, this really is a great community! I'm sure I'm going to make mistakes along the way that cost me time and/or money...and a lot of frustration...but in the end, I am learning a lot and that was one of my goals (gotta keep reminding myself of that).

I've not forgotten about two important requests - engine number and carb pics (including data off the tag on the side). I've been putting in some late hours and was out of town over the weekend. I'll post that soon.

According to my (English version) of the WSM, DaveB is right - Weber 32/34 DMTL

I know the big can of carb clearer Nium is talking about - based on these comments is it fair to assume that the emulsion tube and that main jet should be clear all the way through? If that's the case, its probably worth the $20-$60 to order new jets (consider what I did with that pen and some gentle tapping).

I'm also going to research a local carburetor repair shop - see what options I have. There's something to be said about having a professional ensuring its in working order so I know where I'm starting next time.

I still don't trust the two solenoids - neither seems to be functioning...for what that's worth.

Thanks again all! I'll keep this thread updated as I poke along.

[scott]

ya said ya had it apart recently. could you have screwed up the float setting? easy to do since adjustments are made by just bending the little ****. if the float is bent too low then it'll be shuting off to soon. i've a 32/36 dgv, don't know how different they are

[NickDawson]

ya said ya had it apart recently. could you have screwed up the float setting? easy to do since adjustments are made by just bending the little ****. if the float is bent too low then it'll be shuting off to soon. i've a 32/36 dgv, don't know how different they are

I didn't have it truly apart - just took off the pan air filter so I could get to the jets and look into the bowel. But....that doesn't mean I didn't screw it up

I'm going to guess that I didn't since the symptoms are completely unchanged since it stopped running which happened before I did my investigation.

[daveb]

According to my (English version) of the WSM, DaveB is right - Weber 32/34 DMTL

No kidding?

I know the big can of carb clearer Nium is talking about - based on these comments is it fair to assume that the emulsion tube and that main jet should be clear all the way through?

No.

If that's the case, its probably worth the $20-$60 to order new jets (consider what I did with that pen and some gentle tapping).

Save your money. Once you finish reading all of my posts, you will see that I told you how to deal with this.

I'm also going to research a local carburetor repair shop - see what options I have. There's something to be said about having a professional ensuring its in working order so I know where I'm starting next time.

Good luck, last production year for carb'ed vehicles in the USA was 1987.

I still don't trust the two solenoids- neither seems to be functioning...for what that's worth.

Upper solenoid pointing to the front of the car should be closed while running. It is a vent that should be open when the car is off.

The lower solenoid pointing toward the left side of the car is the fuel cutoff. The vehicle will not run without it working. With the ignition on, after confirming that you have 12v at the spade terminal on the solenoid, remove the terminal and replace it while you are holding the solnoid in your other hand. You should feel it click. If it doesn't click, use a test light to make sure there is sufficient grounding through the carb body.

Thanks again all! I'll keep this thread updated as I poke along.

Read what I have posted, don't just skim. Try to pay attention to the details and proceed in an orderly, logical fashion, not jumping around from one theory to the next. For example, if you don't trust the solenoids, test them...don't just talk about it...

[NickDawson]

Interesting - I'm making progress, I think, and learning a whole lot about troubleshooting.

I re-read this thread a few times and tried Daveb's suggestion to test the fuel shutoff solenoid - it was not getting power. So I wired it straight to the battery and got a reassuring click.

Tracing it back, it was not getting juiced from the relay it was connected to which is not getting juice from the 2nd fuse under the steering column. I still can't figure out which of the two leads coming in is the hot one, both have continuity to something + but not much voltage - IE something's grounding out?

Even when I supplied a clean 12V to that circuit, it still wouldn't catch....

Thats when I read Coltphan's post here:

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9466

which lead me back to this page I'd read a while ago (re: ignition system troubleshooting):

http://www.custompistols.com/cars/articles/ignition.htm

which led me to test the points and coil - the coil was sitting at 150F with only about 2.5V coming out on the side of the dizzy.

I bought that coil new a few months ago - Ironically when I was troubleshooting an issue that was in fact the fuel shutoff solenoid. So I swapped for the old one and after a few cranks it choked to life, but won't stay running... presumably b/c of, once again, the fuel shutoff solenoid.

So, at the risk of belaboring this tread, I'm hoping someone would be kind enough to either A) provide some validation that I'm on the right track and/or B) apply their expertise to the whole problem at large - it strikes me as related that I've got voltage problems feeding the solenoid on the carb, and I've had this same issue before and the coil is burnt out (been told they rarely if ever go bad)... seems like a short somewhere to me...thoughts?

[kevkon]

Nick, I'm not sure that I have a good understanding of your situation but it seems to me that you have had a lot of electrical related problems with your truck. It could be coincidence, but often that can be symptomatic of a hacked up wiring/ electrical system. The stock system is really pretty simple, but when it has been modified,damaged, badly repaired, and fitted with incorrect components all sorts of troubles can and will arise. Is this the case with your Series? I mean has the PO changed or altered the stock electrical system for some reason?

[NickDawson]

Kevkon - not sure I'd know what a standard wiring setup would look like, but my suspicion is that its fairly hacked together. I'm warming to the idea of buying a new wiring harness and replacing it, but would love to make that a winter project if I can put it off.

latest:
Got it running on saturday, maybe enough cranking and puttering got it warm enough?
Ran really well on the top end, but with the tiniest bit of throttle it, ie first 1/4 press of the pedal it struggles and I get some black smoke out of the tail pipe. Its nice to not have the hesitation on the top end any more.

I used the timing like and tried it dead center on the mark and then on the marks on either side, not much change in that symptom.

Went to drive it the next day when it was truly cold - started but only with full throttle and then required me to keep it at full throttle while it choked and glugged for 3 minutes coughing smoke to warm up. Shorting the relay that opens the solenoid on the carb helps, but only marginally.

I'm at the point of understanding the advice I was given during my search about finding someone local who knows what they are doing. I feel like I'm so close on a couple of issues, but without that consultation I'm not quite getting there....books and research are helping a lot, but hard to put theory into practical space without someone saying "yep, thats right".


Anyway, I feel good about where I am, but would love to hear any thoughts about dialing it in and getting it to start more smoothly.

[kevkon]

Nick, I don't necessarily mean a stock wiring harness, just one that hasn't been cut up and filled with potentially bad splices. The Series has a limited fuse block and simple wiring, Unfortunately, over time it's common for po's to add devices and circuits and to do so in the easiest manner.

It's hard to diagnose remotely, but it sounds to me like there's a possibility that you are not getting any advance on your timing.

[NickDawson]

It's hard to diagnose remotely, but it sounds to me like there's a possibility that you are not getting any advance on your timing.

Wife just informed me that we are buying a kegorator (I know, she's a keeper) - anyone want to come to Virginia? hint hint

thanks Kevkon, I intend to do some serious electrical unraveling in the near future, I'll keep this group posted.

I'll also explore the advance, although I was under the impression that only kicked in a higher RPMs?

[NickDawson]

Its starting now, but not running well... lot of black smoke at low RPMs (1/4 throttle)


(and since I can't get the youtube feature to ever work, here's the raw link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28e8XhafCbA )
I checked the gap on the points again and tried micro adjustments through the acceptable range listed in the workshop manual...no difference. I also checked to make sure the low tension lead wasnt rubbing and grounding somewhere - seemed fine.


I have it timed right on the center notch, but also tried advancing and retarding it across the scale - not much difference in RPMs or performance.

checked for spark on each plug, seems solid, but the plugs are pretty fouled (not sure if that is a cause or effect)



In what was probably an unrelated diagnostic, I checked the compression - all good.

Think I'm going to breakdown and take it in to my local shop this week... anyone have any thoughts before then?

[bkreutz]

The black smoke and the appearance of your plugs both indicate an over rich condition. First thing I would check is the float level in the carb (and if the needle valve is shutting off the fuel when the bowl gets full).

[kevkon]

Nick, did you rebuild this carb?