Time for clutch work?

[morgant]

I see no reason to disassemble the clutch pedal tower.

Purely to be able to remove all the rust. I'd rather only disassemble the clutch pedal tower this once.

You mentioned much earlier that the exhaust downpipe was extremely close to the slave cylinder. The thought occurred to me that your problems might be due to that very reason, you might be boiling the fluid. Did the problems occur more after a good drive than a short trip around the corner? If so rigging a heat shield may be in order when you get it back together.

That did occur to me. I also discovered some paint peeling & discoloration on part of the bulkhead from the exhaust, so something is definitely needed. Was going to start w/some exhaust wrap.

[kwd509]

Purely to be able to remove all the rust.

Morgant,
You are ahead of me, as I begin tinkering with a rover that has been sitting for 25 + years. Want to remove clutch and brake hydraulics but find all the fittings rusted solid, seeming more resistant and fragile than nuts and bolts I've encountered thus far.
Did you discover any tricks in your process?
Thanks.

[morgant]

Want to remove clutch and brake hydraulics but find all the fittings rusted solid, seeming more resistant and fragile than nuts and bolts I've encountered thus far.
Did you discover any tricks in your process?

I had similar findings. That said, on my Series III, I found the fittings at the flex hose to be relatively easy to get apart and was barely able to get the clutch slave cylinder (w/slave-to-flex line still attached) out, then unbolt my clutch pedal tower (w/master & master-to-flex line still attached) out.

It was not easy to go this route (and my truck has a Daihatsu diesel engine in it, so the clearances may have made it feasible), but once I had everything on a workbench I was able to properly soak in penetrating oil (I'm currently using PB Blaster) and wrench them apart with far more luck.

[morgant]

Aha, the pedal shaft does just drive out from the indented end (the end that had the pin through it). Soaked w/a little penetrating oil, clamped it down to a bench, and used an even larger pin punch and it came out without fuss.

Alternating weekends I have access to a heated workspace w/benches, clamps, and all the power tools not in my personal collection. It's nice, but it's 150 miles away, so I think I've gotta build a portable, sturdy, outdoor work table for this kind of stuff. Winter weather be damned.

[kwd509]

Aha, the pedal shaft does just drive out from the indented end (the end that had the pin through it). Soaked w/a little penetrating oil, clamped it down to a bench, and used an even larger pin punch and it came out without .

Are you saying the little pin, and the instructions in the green bible are a red herring and misleading? That the whole assembly is simply drifted out of the bracket?

My rover's pedals seem fine with no slop, but while it is out I consider looking into this and perhaps disassembling so as to more easily treat rust on the bracket.......

My donor's clutch bracket and mc are chopped and not standard so I can use that to study the assembly....... So to return to your comment,....... The tiny pin seems unrelated to removal from the bracket..... Seems country to the manual. Please confirmmmm.

[morgant]

Are you saying the little pin, and the instructions in the green bible are a red herring and misleading? That the whole assembly is simply drifted out of the bracket?

...

My donor's clutch bracket and mc are chopped and not standard so I can use that to study the assembly....... So to return to your comment,....... The tiny pin seems unrelated to removal from the bracket..... Seems country to the manual. Please confirmmmm.

Sorry, I glossed over some info I had mentioned earlier, you do have to remove that pin first.

I don't have a copy of the Green Bible, so I've just been going by the Blue Book which, admittedly, may not be as detailed. Here's what I did to remove the pedal shaft & pedal from the pedal tower:

1) Used a 1/8" (3mm) pin punch to remove the pin that prevents the pedal shaft from working its way out of the pedal housing. (lock pin? linchpin? what's the correct term for that?)
2) Sprayed penetrating oil in around the ends of the pedal shaft.
3) Used a very large pin punch (just shy of 1/2" as the inside diameter of the pedal shaft is 1/2") to drive out the pedal shaft from the indented end (not the end that's tapped for filling w/oil; so, the same end that the small pin was removed from).

Hope that helps you disassemble yours.

[kwd509]

Hope that helps you disassemble yours.

yes, that helps.

The pedals I have seem to have little if any play, and so I am not sure this is a high priority matter. did you have trouble with your pedals, or is your disassembly in the service of thorough painting?

Jay

[morgant]

did you have trouble with your pedals, or is your disassembly in the service of thorough painting?

More thorough painting... and procrastination under the guise of learning.

[kwd509]

More thorough painting... and procrastination under the guise of learning.

yes, I get it...... me too.

[morgant]

Okay, time to get my ass in gear and get my SIII running ASAP, I just found out I need to move it for some property excavation on May 9th! I've been aching to drive it (although my "cold weather" Land Rover-related project is still in the works), so it's probably good.

So, I'll be rushing to paint & reassemble my pedal tower and try to re-fit the clutch hydraulics so I can move it under its own power (or at least be able to easily get it into neutral).

I was originally going to buy a new clutch master cylinder, but I think 'm going to just do rebuild on the one I've got and hope it's good enough for now. I've got plenty of other things to throw that money at. Also going to have to try the ProLine slave cylinder.

Love our hosts for being able to toss together an order for me quickly (could save more money at some of the other suppliers, but don't find them as easy), but they can't have one of the lines in until late next week (let alone shipped to me). I know a number of people suggest cutting, bending, and flanging one's own lines and that NAPA is a good source for the parts. Unfortunately, I don't have easy access to a NAPA, are there any other good sources for the parts? Can you help me build a shopping list for making my own lines (tools, line material & dimensions, nut dimension & threads, etc.)?

Update: from my investigation, it looks like the piping/tubing is all 1/4". It sounds like cunifer/kunifer is the best material to go with. So I just need to figure out the fittings & tools (assuming I need a cutting tool, file, bender, and flanger) and source them all. Anyone know the specs of the female fittings that connect to the flex pipe & the mail fittings that go into the master & slave cylinders?

Another Update: I can reuse the female fittings that connect to the flex hose as they're in decent condition. ajr on the LRO mailing list had a brilliant suggestion of buying an appropriate length of pre-assembled tubing w/the male fittings & bubble flaring, cutting it, adding my usable fittings & re-flaring (since that end only needs a double flare, not a bubble flare).

That said, I'm having trouble determining whether the male fittings are 3/8-24 british or metric (w/non-threaded lead, in both cases). Does anyone know which they'd be for a 1982 RHD Series III? Unfortunately, my local AutoZone (which ajr suggested and happens to be considerably more local than NAPA), doesn't seem to carry pre-made 1/4" tubing w/the british fittings.

Still trying to get ahold of Trevor at RovahFarm since he seems to have pre-made clutch lines (RHD, even) w/the (hopefully) correct fittings.

A Further Update: Okay, I've struck out at AutoZone & NAPA. Bummer. I guess I'll be waiting for RN to order the tubing in question. The good news is I have the gear box & transfer case in neutral, so I guess I'll be pushing the truck to move it before the 9th. Anyone wanna help?

[morgant]

In between POR-15 prep & paint stages and primer coats (brushed... not fun on a pedal tower... looks like crap) this weekend, I soaked my master-to-flex pipe in PB Blaster again & kept working it. I was eventually able to break the nut free and work it so it spins freely, so I'll be able to take that backordered item off my order and get everything this week!

[morgant]

Okay, hopefully someone can help me out here: A 7/16" fitting threaded into the new clutch slave easily & smoothly, but seemed to have just the slightest bit of play. Since 7/16" is approximately 11.5mm and FedHill only lists 12mm x 1.0 (M8?) fittings for 1/4" line, does that mean that their 12mm x 1.0 w/non-threaded lead is what I'm looking for?

[morgant]

Closer & closer

I had to winch & push the SIII to it's new spot over the weekend as I'm still searching for this one last fitting, but I feel I'm getting extremely close.

I spent and hour as Fisher Auto in Waitsfield this afternoon and we found that it's definitely an 11mm fitting, but the 11mm x 1.5 they had only seemed to thread in 1/2 way. At this point, it must be either 11mm x 1.25 or 11mm x 1.0. The problem is, they could only find 11mm fittings for 3/8" lines, not 1/4".

I've got an email into FedHill to see if they've even heard of an 11mm x 1.25 or 11mm x 1.0 (w/non-threaded lead) for 1/4" line w/bubble flare.

On the other hand, while our hosts couldn't tell me the length of the SIII hard lines to figure out which I need (since mine seems to have the short one going master-to-flex and the long going to flex-to-slave; hence going this route), yet LRSeries has the long one for SIII (both Genuine & Britpart) that appears to be the correct length (and the bends look to be in the correct spots to have straightened/re-bent to make the one I have). That said, it is just a photo. The Britpart one is inexpensive enough that I feel I could get away with cutting it up if it turns out to not be the correct length.

[morgant]

And ten months later (I don't even want to look up how long it's been since I started ripping clutch hydraulics out)...

First, to recap the fittings, 7/16" w/non-threaded lead & bubble flare. That said, I didn't end up making new lines.

Yesterday I got new clutch pedal tower from Ike @ Pangolin installed (I trashed the original trying to refurbish it in a hurry, don't ask), installed new flex line and my original flex to master. Unfortunately, the flex to slave is still seized on the slave end, but reverse of what I did when I took it off, I just threaded it on and installed both together. It's a new slave cylinder. Only finger tightened the bolts on the clutch slave (major pain as the exhaust down pipe is in the way and cannot be removed... I'm going to have to have that part of the custom exhaust redone) until I ran out of light and feeling in my fingers.

I had also disassembled my clutch master cylinder and found wear, so that's gotta be replaced. Should've ordered it long ago, but will be doing so this morning (from our hosts).

While I'm kicking myself for letting this sit for soooooooo long, feels good to be back on it and almost back together.

Update: And the new master cylinder is in and the old solid pipes reconnected. Unfortunately they leak at the fittings (one was seized up, so I should've known threading it on before installation wouldn't work). Live & learn. Looks like I'd have to order the solid pipes from the UK (since it's RHD) or buy some kunifer/cunifer, a bender, and a flange tool and make my own lines.

Back to the drawing board!

[morgant]

Over the last few months I picked up fittings (a few 7/16" x 20 UNF w/non-threaded lead, plus the female counterparts) & 6ft of cunifer 1/4" line from FedHill and double-flared and bent my own lines. That was quite the learning experience. My skill level seemed to work on a bell curve... I did great in the middle, but by the last flare I had to re-flare about 10 times! Got it all back together, no leaks, and I think I got it bled correctly, but now the clutch won't engage (when I parked it it wouldn't disengage, but I had managed to pop it out sometime in the process).

So, glad I have new clutch hydraulics, but on to the next step. Actually, before that, I realized I installed the clutch slave upside down (bleed screw down), so I need to invert that and re-bleed. I'm wondering whether, with the truck sitting this long, I managed to get the clutch release seized while pushed in.