Replacement Axle Housings / Diffs / Drivetrain

[nz rover]

Well - I finally picked up my first Series - a '66 109 Station Wagon. I just moved back from New Zealand and had to bring it with me. I'll post some pics once I get a chance.

My question is this - I am doing a V8 / NV4500 swap and really need to beef up the drivetrain. As it has the stock axle housings and diff (non-salisbury) I'm wondering if anyone makes a full blown replacement housing or if there are similar bolt-ins from later model rovers?

How do people approach this? I've tried to get some answers but haven't seen anything along these lines. This is high up on my list because I need to do a disc-brake swap and don't want to get all the adapters if I can just get a full set up (axle housing, diff, axles, brakes) from a donor or vendor.

Can anyone advise of potential options here? Thanks in advance!

[I Leak Oil]

Given your criteria any set of axles you go with will be custom. So I guess the next step would be to decide if you want to keep them rover or are you OK with another brand?

[nz rover]

I'm certainly ok with another brand. I would lean towards something that had somewhat of a cross reference (later disco, FJ, etc) so I could source replacement parts when things brake.

As a relative rookie to the Series scene, is there an option to beef up the internals (axles, diff, etc) while maintaining the factory housing?

[SalemRover]

Its worth looking here.

http://gbrutah.com/

I am not sure if he is still making the half shafts but this would be a great option as well.

http://www.seriestrek.com/toyotadiffs.html

[JSBriggs]

The the stock housing itself is plenty strong enough, and you can upgrade teh tin cover with an 8" weld on pipe cap. There are several axle upgrades out there. ROAM and GBR are both quality. As for the diff itself Ashcroft, ARB, or a P38 4 pinion carrier will be stronger. GBr has a wide variety of ratios available as well.

-Jeff

[I Leak Oil]

Certainly worth doing some investigating on Google. There is lots of info on modifying the stock rover axles as well as full on swaps to toyota and the like.

My personal view putting a ton of money into the rover axle isn't worth it compared to just doing a complete swap. Again, that will also depend on your skill level and ability to go either route yourself. If you have to pay someone then it will be expensive either way.

[TeriAnn]

Given your criteria any set of axles you go with will be custom. So I guess the next step would be to decide if you want to keep them rover or are you OK with another brand?

Geeezzz

1. Contact advance adapters and talk to Matt. Advance Adapters has an adapter to go between an NV4500 and Series transfercase.

There is a picture of one on this page.

2. The Salisbury axle assembly will hold up to a V8. The Salisbury is the stock rear axle for a SIII 109. It is a direct bolt on swap on an earlier 109. You need the SIII 109 rear propshaft to go with it because the Salisbury has a longer nose.

I have been running a Salisbury behind my 5.0L V8 without any problems for 14 years now. Everything behind the NV4500 is a straight bolt on if the transfercase is in the stock location. If you need to move the transfercase rearwards you will need a military crossmember (it bolts on) and custom length front & rear propshafts. You will also need to put a divot on the front top of the under the bulkhead crossmember just under the front propshaft for extra clearance.

3. You will need to convert to power steering to fit the V8. Hit up NZ or UK wrecking yards for a used RHD RR P38 power steering box. Get the pitman arm & lower steering column that goes with the steering box.

4. Convert to an aluminum cross flow radiator that will sit on top of the front crossmember instead of behind it. You will need to modify the radiator mounts on the radiator bulkhead.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/engine_conversion_V8.htm

[I Leak Oil]

Geeezzz TeriAnn, that's all good info but it doesn't address the front axle and his desire to just use a complete set with no adapters, disc brakes, etc. Agree that a Salisbury is a good fit and he obviously knows about them as he already mentioned it. I have one in my 88" with no complaints. Although I think I'd upgrade to bigger shafts if I were going to run a V8, that's just me though.

I wish someone would sell an affordable set of HD front shafts though. That and the discs are what really drive the cost of bolt on rover axle mods.

[nz rover]

TeriAnn- Thanks for the info. I was on to your site quite some time ago and just saw you made the pages of LR magazine. Nicely done!

As for the axle housing it really comes down to simplicity. I drive my vehicles a lot, so I have a bias towards a more traditional set-up. Unfortunately that seems to have a broad meaning. (In my head I was hoping someone would say "a 2007 Silverado has identical specs, just bolt them on. Fat chance).

I've got just about everything else lined up, t-case to NV4500, NV4500 to engine. It's just a matter of getting housings and axles to hold up with out spending years of effort on geometry.

I see salisburys here and there for about $2k, but am having a hard time with that cost. I've looked into Moser, Strange, etc (I have a hot-rodding background) but again then it's hours upon hours of angles, adapters, etc. If you can't tell, yes, I'm going in circles here. If anyone has a lead on some affordable salisburys let me know.

I'll keep a look out for the SIII salisburys. (Do people run them in the front as well, 4x4 is new to me)

And, food for thought. Have you seen the GM LFX engines? I have spent countless hours trying to get specs / bellhousing, etc because it would be an incredible retrofit. 320hp all aluminum V6. Unfortunately the tuning appears to be a nightmare, there are no adapters (not even Advance) and it has a built in exhaust manifold which could be awesome and simultaneously awful. I heard there was a guy in Texas who did it but it seems to be folklore at the moment.

[TeriAnn]

Geeezzz TeriAnn, that's all good info but it doesn't address the front axle and his desire to just use a complete set with no adapters,

No adapters? You need to adapt the bulkhead to fit the V8. You need to adapt the frame engine mounts to fit the V8. You need to adapt the radiator bulkhead to fit a radiator big enough for the V8. You need to modify the gearbox tunnel, at least one of the floorboards, the accelerator linkage, and seat box where it meets the gearbox tunnel. And you need to convert to power steering if you want to be able to change spark plugs. So what is an off the shelf adapter between the gearbox and transfercase in comparison?

disc brakes,

You can still install a set of Torrel front disc brakes for very roughly 60ish % what it would cost to install everything for either a Heystee or Roam Offroad front disc brake conversion. I would recommend going to the Heystee 8 inch servo unit with the conversion. The Series servo has a 6 inch diaphragm and provides less boost then Land Rover ever coupled with front disc brakes.

Land Rover used a servo with an 8 inch diaphragm (50 series) with their first disc brake Defenders. Heystee sells an 8 inch diaphragm Santana servo that is a bolt on fit to a Series brake tower. The LR servo has a different pedal attachment. After a few years LR went from the 8 inch servo to a 10 inch servo. A 10 inch servo requires a Defender brake tower and a deluxe bonnet for vertical clearance. And even then the increased length of cut into the wing top could be noticeable with the bonnet down.

I wish someone would sell an affordable set of HD front shafts though.

You and me both. The hardened 24 spline front axles are VERY expensive. I gather the machining for the U joint ends is where the cost is. On the other hand most of the power goes to the rear axles while offroading and the stock front axles can handle most of the offroading use if you don't have an engine with crazy torque. I have broken one 10 spline front axle during the first 21 years of driving my 109 and it was with the 2.25L petrol engine. Afterwords I put 10 years of driving on 10 spine front axles with the V8 before upgrading to the 24 spline fronts. The front 10 splines didn't break during that time. On the other hand I'm easy on the throttle when off road. I only upgraded to the 24 spline front axles because I got a super duper sweetheart deal on a slightly used pair from someone who was upgrading all axles to 35 spline to go with an engine swap.

You can get front Salisbury and ENV axle assemblies but they are very pricy. I'd guess about the price of front hardened 24 spline axles.

[I Leak Oil]

All that bolt on stuff sure does add up. LC axles are out there and if you can do reasonable fabrication they can be installed for relatively short money and you have all stock, parts store replacements. Really depends on what you have for skills, cash or a combo of both.

[TeriAnn]

As for the axle housing it really comes down to simplicity. I drive my vehicles a lot, so I have a bias towards a more traditional set-up. Unfortunately that seems to have a broad meaning. (In my head I was hoping someone would say "a 2007 Silverado has identical specs, just bolt them on. Fat chance).

That's where the swap to stock SIII rear axle assembly and rear propshaft comes in. They are a direct bolt on swap. Unbolt one, roll it out, roll in the new and bolt it back together. It is about as simple of an upgrade as they come.

I see salisburys here and there for about $2k, but am having a hard time with that cost.

I gather the price is for a rebuilt assembly ready to install. Used ones in good condition can be a lot cheaper, but they are mostly found in the UK. I pretty much lucked out on mine. I was in the UK and purchased a used stock SIII rear axle assembly from a SIII 109 being parted out. It cost me 75 pounds. As it happened I had a friend who was putting together a container of LR stuff to ship to the US. So I finagled a free ride of the axle assembly to the US. You might look into the cost of a good condition used one in the UK and the cost of having it shipped to the US on a pallet.

I've looked into Moser, Strange, etc (I have a hot-rodding background) but again then it's hours upon hours of angles, adapters, etc. If you can't tell, yes, I'm going in circles here.

I can see the completed conversion cost being more than the US cost of a rebuilt Salisbury. The other thing to look at is what happens if you do break a part or you need new seals or bearings. With a Salisbury you just order off the shelf SIII 109 parts.

Your other easy option is to keep the stock Rover axle housing, buy a 24 spline rear diff from ARB, Trutrac or Detroit locker, buy aftermarket hardened 24 spline axles and Salisbury 24 spline drive flanges. You keep your stock rear propshaft. I have never priced it out but it is the alternative to a Salisbury that is a bolt on solution for both 88 and 109s.

I'll keep a look out for the SIII salisburys. (Do people run them in the front as well, 4x4 is new to me)

The One Ton model of Land Rover came stock with ENV axles front and back for SIIA. These are very strong. The Series III One Ton models came with front and rear Salisbury axle assemblies. These axles were also used under the Land Rover armored cars, some firetruck models and some special order commercial vehicles. The rear Salisburys are a lot more common because they were used under all SIII 109s and early One Tens up through 1993.

And, food for thought. Have you seen the GM LFX engines? I have spent countless hours trying to get specs / bellhousing, etc because it would be an incredible retrofit. 320hp all aluminum V6. Unfortunately the tuning appears to be a nightmare, there are no adapters (not even Advance) and it has a built in exhaust manifold which could be awesome and simultaneously awful. I heard there was a guy in Texas who did it but it seems to be folklore at the moment.

I have never heard of the engine. 320 HP on an aluminum V6 sounds like the engine is highly stressed. Also aluminum engines tend to be very sensitive to overheating. I'm leery of an aluminum engine for a full size offroad truck. The LR aluminum engines do not have a reputation for being high mileage trouble fee engines. I've preferred cast iron engines because they wear well and tend not to warp if overheated.

A few thoughts:

1. I always thought a 109 with hard top wanted at least 120 HP to be drivable on US highways. Most of the time between about 120 and 200 HP is plenty for carrying heavy loads anyplace in the US. 10 spline fronts and Salisbury rears with stock propshafts can easily handle the loads and power. As you go up from there you start adding increased stress if you put your foot into the bucket very often. Off road driving should be done easily unless you are into competitive hill climb or offroad racing. Unless you are pulling heavy trailers up hills you really don't have much reason to go over about 200 HP.

2. When looking at V engines look at its dimensions. You are looking for a a narrow V to have room for the exhaust and to be able to change spark plugs.

3. Engines come and engines go. The factory will provide parts for an engine for 10 years after the engine is discontinued. How long aftermarket parts will be available for them will depend upon how popular the engine is. You can easily get parts for the Chevy 350 and the Ford 5.0 because they are very popular engines they are used in a lot of swaps. There are a lot of very good engines that do not have part support much past the 10 years of factory support. Unless you plan to sell the truck when parts are still available I suggest staying away from engines that are not popular among auto enthusiasts.

[TeriAnn]

All that bolt on stuff sure does add up. LC axles are out there and if you can do reasonable fabrication they can be installed for relatively short money and you have all stock, parts store replacements. Really depends on what you have for skills, cash or a combo of both.

Its a fabrication vs bolt on thing. There is engineering involved in any swap and if you get it not quite right you will be unhappy with the results. I would rather get a FJ45 if I wanted a long wheelbase 4X4 with Toyota parts. Everything is engineered to work together. Just like having a 109 with 109 parts.

Besides you would have to purchase a another set of wrenches and workshop manuals

[SafeAirOne]

I see salisburys here and there for about $2k, but am having a hard time with that cost. If anyone has a lead on some affordable salisburys let me know.

Reasonable one for sale here:

http://siteground237.com/~gunsandr/showthread.php?3091-Salisbury-Axle

[I Leak Oil]

Besides you would have to purchase a another set of wrenches and workshop manuals

A) You can never have too many tools!
B) I don't need no stink'n manual! Eventually things come out right....