The plot tickens (series III backfire/idle, brakes)

[Nium]

If you wanted to give static timing 1 last go before you had it towed. Put every gear lever in the neutral position. Main gear lever selector, transfer box selector (red knob), and the overdrive gear lever selector (if you have one). I don't really think it's some foreign object in the engine it really seems like you still had the tranny engaged and that's why you couldn't turn the engine by hand with all the spark plugs out. With the tranny in neutral (all selector levers) you should still be able to turn the engine by hand using the cooling fan even with the spark plugs in.

[NickDawson]

If you wanted to give static timing 1 last go before you had it towed. Put every gear lever in the neutral position.

Fairly sure I did that, but could have missed something... will verify tonight since I need it to roll onto the flat bed tomorrow

[NickDawson]

Why can't i quit!
Its soooo close to firing, if I crank it or 30 seconds or so it fires once or twice but never catches.

I've got the green bible in hand and am working on the static timing - giving it one more shot before it goes to the Rover hospital tomorrow. With everything in neutral I am still not able to fully turn it over. When I try the fan, the belt just slips. If I really jerk on the belt I can move it about 1/4 turn in each direction, but not all the way around.

I got lucky and got the timing mark to line up by turning it over with the starter motor.

[JimCT]

More to it

The rotor needs to be pointing to the #1 wire.

[NickDawson]

Gentlemen, for a brief moment tonight, I held dominion over machine.
I'm not a father yet, but I have to imagine its similar

I couldnt find a static timing night and thought I'd goof off for a few minutes before packing it up. I tried to static time it by eye, getting the points to open just before TDC (the manual says to static time closed at TDC for #1). That actually worked.

It ran for a good 10 minutes, pretty rough at first, pouring black/brown smoke out of the exhaust as it cleared the cruft. Once it warmed it I was able to try and dial it in a bit... it was still rough, if I gave it gas it sounded gnarly and would backfire...LOUDLY!

I used the timing gun and dialed it in even more and it smoothed out. Then I set the idle on the carb and it was purring I tell you... still not totally smooth at higher revs (remember that busted vacuum line to the advance?) and then it died. For no reason, it just kind of petered out and I can't get back to that happy place. I do, however offer proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2b8OPTLePM

So now I have to decide if I send it away or keep puttering...why does it live to taunt me?

[Nium]

Is there gas in the tank?

Check the low tension lead.

[NickDawson]

gas - check

Low tension still connected

I should say that I'm doing this without a timing light. I still cannot for the life of me turn the engine over by hand (oddly even in neutral the front wheels would not spin when off the ground) - but again, when it was running it didn't lurch, crawl or make any suggestion of going forward on its own...

So I know its probably silly without a light, but help me understand some basics here. I had the rotor button lined up on the first plug, and the timing mark on TDC (as per the manual). Do I understand correctly that I want the points to just be closing at the point? If so, why do I want a spark when the first cylinder is all the way at the top?

Also, I can get the points to close at two locations on the inside of the distributor, when they've just been open and when they are just about to open again (make sense?) which is it that I'm looking for?

In other words, they seem to be closed when they are on the flat side of the spindle in the distributor (is that the dizzy by the way?) and they open when the spindle makes a turn on the 4 corners.

Just trying to better understand how this contraption works

[Nium]

Basics

Distributor = dizzy

4 stroke engine

Each of the 4 cylinders have 4 individual strokes they go through. From TDC with the rotor pointing at the corresponding spark plug wire location inside the distributor cap. The piston goes thru these 4 strokes.

1. Power-The spark plug fired igniting the air/fuel mixture pushing the piston down from 6 degrees past TDC. Intake and exhaust valves are closed
2. Exhaust-The piston has traveled to the bottom of the cylinder the energy from the burning air/fuel mixture's ignition has been spent and the piston is now traveling back up to the top of the cylinder. The exhaust valve is open.
3. Intake-At the top of the cylinder the exhaust valve has closed. Just after TDC the intake valve opens allowing the piston to draw in the air/fuel mixture as the piston travels to the bottom of the cylinder.
4. Compression-At the bottom of the Intake stroke the Intake valve closes. Now both Intake and Exhaust valve are closed. The piston now travels to the top of the cylinder compressing the air/fuel mixture for ignition just after the top of the compression stroke.

There are 4 lobes on the distributor shaft. Each lobe (one of the 4 corners of the distributor shaft) corresponds to opening the points for a cylinder. When the following arm of the points rides up onto the distributor shaft lobe the points are opened. The open points trigger the spark from the coil. You want the points to open just after the piston has moved a few degrees past TDC so it pushes the piston down on the power stroke and not backwards into the compression stroke. After triggering the spark from the coil the distributor shaft rotates thus closing the points (once again completing the circuit to the coil) allowing the coil to build the charge for the next opening of the points.

For static timing you need a 12 Volt test light not a timing light or timing gun.

Check that the low tension lead wire isn't broken inside the insulation. Disconnect it from the coil and from the connection to the points. Test it for continuity with a multimeter set to read ohms while flexing the low tension lead where it connects to the points. You want no resistance in the low tension lead. Continuity = no resistance.

Or just keep turning it over till it fires up again. Pour a little gas down the carb throat (1/4 cup or less) to see if it'll fire with that.

[kevkon]

So now I have to decide if I send it away or keep puttering...why does it live to taunt me?

I sure hope it was only the quality of your recording, but that motor sounded like it lost a cylinder. Take it to the LR mechanic, have him check it out. Learn from him. You and the Rover will be the better for it.

[Nium]

I concur with taking it to the mechanic.

[Nium]

Any word from the front? Did ya ever get it to the mechanic?

[NickDawson]

yep, getting very terse updates right now (hes a busy guy) , but as of last night its running and perhaps more importantly stopping (brakes).

Plan to head down there to spend some time learning from the master over the weekend. Anxious to figure out what he did and what he discovered.

I'm still feeling a tad guilty, I think I was really close to getting it running. But in the end this will be money well spent and I'll know that my starting point is soild.

[bmohan55]

Good! Now you can take it to MAR with confidence. Think of all the Series owners that will be there, talk about experience!

[NickDawson]

Update:
Spoke with Bobby last night - most major starting problem (and why I could not get it started again) is that the "pseudo-electroid" (IE center post inside the dizzy cap) had snapped off. Some may recall it was a brand spanking new cap, but apparently if thigns aren't seated perfectly then its an easy thing to break.
I would never have thought to look there, but will never miss it again. Thankfully still have the older working cap as a spare.

He also said my points were not installed exactly straight. I have before and after pictures that would imply the previous points may have also been installed incorrectly (since they are exactly the same...hey, trying to save some face here).

I haven't gotten the details on the breaks, besides generally bleeding them and getting them up to snuff again, I suggested he replace both wheel cylinders on the front right - no confirmation on that yet.

I've asked that he see if it will pass inpsection today so I can pick it up tomorrow. More details to follow. That will be a 2.5 hour drive (read: 4 hours in a series) so it will be about as good a test as any.

[galen216]

Where is your mechanic that is 2.5 hours away? There is a good guy here in Charlottesville that would be closer than that. He has my series right now and a yard full of Rovers.