The plot tickens (series III backfire/idle, brakes)

[Nium]

oops

3) attach a test light to the low tension led at the points and the other end to the "+" side of the battery (I use the battery cause mines in the engine bay close to the dizzy and I'm assuming yours is)

I just realized I made a little mistake in my instructions for static timing .

In step 3) I meant to say you connect the other end of the test light to the points (at the low tension lead connection). Not to connect the test light to the low tension lead wire. Sorry for any confusion. You are looking to use the points as a switch to turn on and off the test light that way you can tell exactly when they open.

[SafeAirOne]

This is very helpful, thanks! only issue is that I can't turn the engine all the way over by hand.

Going on a mission to find an 1-11/16th socket...

Sounds like you have the same crank pulley bolt I have on my 2.5 diesel (there were 3 sizes of bolt heads used). It's a 41mm socket you're looking for, although this site calls for a 42mm.

[kevkon]

Nick, first off; do you have a proper repair manual? If you don't, I suggest you stop what you are doing and get one. If you do, look carefully at the diagrams and diagnostic proceedures under the relevant sections. A good manual is worth it's weight in gold.
You say you just installed new points, cap, and rotor. Did you compare them closely with the existing ones you repaced? Did you get a new condenser as well? Are you confident all the connections are correct and secure?

[NickDawson]

Sure you can, take the plugs out and block a wheel and put it in neutral.

Maybe I'm missing something - still can only get it about 1/4 turn in each direction. I'm not a weak guy but no matter how hard I yank it hits a spot and will not turn.

I'll see if I can find 41mm and a 1-11/16" ...

When I pulled the plugs they were damp and smelled of gas. They are also pitch black, does that mean it was running way rich?

I do have a set of 4 new plugs, I hate to complicate the diagnosis by introducing a new variable - should I use the new ones?

[NickDawson]

put the new plugs in (call me crazy by according to my feelers they were already gapped correctly) and cranked it for about a minute. It fired once but never caught.

I'll work on the static timing as soon as I find a way to turn the engine... calling it a day.

Thanks for the play-by-play help today

[Nium]

Odd

Maybe I'm missing something - still can only get it about 1/4 turn in each direction. I'm not a weak guy but no matter how hard I yank it hits a spot and will not turn.

Ok that's a little odd. It'll turn over fine by the starter, but with all the spark plugs out of the holes, and the tranny in neutral, you can't turn it by hand? I'm not saying you aren't trying, I'm sure you are. There just shouldn't be any resistance at least not that much. My reasoning being that without the plugs in your not working against the pistons compressing the air/fuel mixture so it should turn really easy, and you'll hear a little pheesht as the air/fuel mixture is blown out the spark plug holes. Engines should have very little resistance to turning because if they didn't then all the more gas would be used to just over come the resistance of the engine.

Nick I really want to be wrong about this but I have to ask. When you took off the air cleaner assembly were any of the studs or nuts, that hold the air cleaner assembly to the carb missing? Were any of the bottom electrodes of the old spark plugs bent over more then any others or nicked or marked up like something had hit them? I am really hoping that some foreign object didn't find it's way down the throat of your carb. On that note whenever the air cleaner is off stuff a clean rag in the top of the carb to prevent any foreign matter from dropping into the combustion chamber via the carb throat.

I only ask because once upon a time I had a FIAT Spyder that had studs on the inside of the air cleaner assembly. One worked itself loose and fell down the carb throat. For an instant the throttle stuck open while driving. I worked the throttle a couple of times with my foot and it came unstuck. Months later I pulled the head, for some reason, and there was the stud stuck to the bottom of the head. I figured hey no big deal removed the stud replaced the rest of them with long screws that went thru the top of the air cleaner assembly and put the engine back together. A few months after that the tiny crack the stud had caused in the intake valve, as it passed into the combustion chamber, finally came to be a big crack and the valve head dropped off and completely shattered the piston head. The piston-less crank rod then went thru the cylinder wall. That engine never ran again.

[SafeAirOne]

Nick I really want to be wrong about this but I have to ask. When you took off the air cleaner assembly were any of the studs or nuts, that hold the air cleaner assembly to the carb missing?

I was wondering something similar but more disasterous...I don't want to create unnecessary fear, but the 2.5 diesel has a timing BELT (not chain) to time the cam (valves) to the crank (pistons). I'm wondering if the petrol does too.

There is always the possiblility that the pistons are out of time with the valves and are striking the valves as the pistons near the top of their stroke. Being a non-clearance engine, this has always been a danger with the 2.5 diesels, necessitating the religious changing of timing belts at regular intervals.

Again, this would be a worst-case scenario. It is probably something else...

[I Leak Oil]

Maybe I'm missing something - still can only get it about 1/4 turn in each direction. I'm not a weak guy but no matter how hard I yank it hits a spot and will not turn.

Stupid question but is the transmission in neutral when you're trying to turn the motor? When you're looking at the motor from the front of the truck it normally turns clockwise fwiw.

[NickDawson]

All good questions - I actually had the sense to stuff a rag down the intake the few times I had the carb off.

The question does have me concerned. I'm a one man show today, so I put a mark on the crank shaft pully with a marker and spun the starter motor a few times, I can confirm that the starter is turning the engine over. Still doesnt answer why I can't do it by hand.

I also had it in 4th earlier and tried to push it - no dice. Again, not a weak guy here... in fact I had pushed in 2nd one other time. Plus, if it were in gear and I tried to start it, I think I'd feel lt lurching forward, right?

At one point I did engage 4wd low to lock all 4 wheels, right now the shifter is in neutral and the red knob is fully forward (although there have been times when it didn't fully re-engage in 2wd high until you moved a bit).

[Nium]

Compression Test

Nick,

You'll need to perform a compression test before you do anything else to the engine. I just wrote a really eloquent reply that was spell checked and everything on how to perform a compression test but the (expletive of your choice inserted here) forum erased it when I hit the Preview Post button. So, I'll write it up again later. It's not that hard and tells you a lot about the health of the valves and piston rings. Right now though I have to walk away from the computer before I hurt it. I would imagine you can relate after your fun with Rover today.

[NickDawson]

Nick,

Right now though I have to walk away from the computer before I hurt it. I would imagine you can relate after your fun with Rover today.

You have no idea how true those words ring!

I have the basic idea of how a compression test works - and have been harboring concern about a blown head gasket since the first time I saw coolant on the block (very very minuscule amount which may have been solved by replacing the thermostat and gasket - not sure b/c it has been driven since).

Do these plugs tell anyone anything? When I pulled them out, they smelled of gas. When I run the try and crank it over (15 seconds or so) I can smell gas under the hood - no leaks or drips.

[kevkon]

Do yourself a favor Nick and sloooow down! Concentrate on the ignition and getting the motor running before worrying about broken valves and such. Try to keep it simple. Read the manual. Take the ignition diagnostics step by step.

[Nium]

Old Plugs

What's the gap on that plug and the other old ones you pulled out?

have been harboring concern about a blown head gasket since the first time I saw coolant on the block

That's not how a blown head gasket manifests. The coolant leaks into the cylinder and is displayed as constant white smoke out of the exhaust after the engine is warmed up and at operating temperature. When the engine is cool, white smoke isn't uncommon due to condensation in the exhaust system being burned off.

[NickDawson]

I've got a compromise...its not exactly quitting...

We have a family mechanic friend about 2.5 hours away who works on Series trucks a lot (has one in his shop now and serviced the Series that got me hooked for years before it was sold). His son-in-law, coincidentally, would be well known to Va rover folks since his family hosted rallies at their farm for several years.

In short, I trust the guy with my truck.

I can get it hauled down there for a reasonable price (thankfully got that option on my insurance). I can't spend a week with this guy, but I can spend an afternoon with him learning. I've asked him to walk me through whatever he does and he's agreed to work with me and show me what's what.

If I can get it running and passing VA inspection for a few hundred (fingers crossed) then its money well spent - and with what I've learned so far I'll be in a MUCH better place to be able to keep it running. I think its the next best think to having a rover sage locally.

Thanks for the help thus far folks, I'll keep you posted!

[Bertha]

I've got a compromise...its not exactly quitting...

We have a family mechanic friend about 2.5 hours away who works on Series trucks a lot (has one in his shop now and serviced the Series that got me hooked for years before it was sold). His son-in-law, coincidentally, would be well known to Va rover folks since his family hosted rallies at their farm for several years.

In short, I trust the guy with my truck.

I can get it hauled down there for a reasonable price (thankfully got that option on my insurance). I can't spend a week with this guy, but I can spend an afternoon with him learning. I've asked him to walk me through whatever he does and he's agreed to work with me and show me what's what.

If I can get it running and passing VA inspection for a few hundred (fingers crossed) then its money well spent - and with what I've learned so far I'll be in a MUCH better place to be able to keep it running. I think its the next best think to having a rover sage locally.

Thanks for the help thus far folks, I'll keep you posted!

This is the best move/plan you have come up with so far. Let us know your findings after that afternoon session with him.