The plot tickens (series III backfire/idle, brakes)

[Nium]

Compression Test

Nick,

You'll need to perform a compression test before you do anything else to the engine. I just wrote a really eloquent reply that was spell checked and everything on how to perform a compression test but the (expletive of your choice inserted here) forum erased it when I hit the Preview Post button. So, I'll write it up again later. It's not that hard and tells you a lot about the health of the valves and piston rings. Right now though I have to walk away from the computer before I hurt it. I would imagine you can relate after your fun with Rover today.

[NickDawson]

All good questions - I actually had the sense to stuff a rag down the intake the few times I had the carb off.

The question does have me concerned. I'm a one man show today, so I put a mark on the crank shaft pully with a marker and spun the starter motor a few times, I can confirm that the starter is turning the engine over. Still doesnt answer why I can't do it by hand.

I also had it in 4th earlier and tried to push it - no dice. Again, not a weak guy here... in fact I had pushed in 2nd one other time. Plus, if it were in gear and I tried to start it, I think I'd feel lt lurching forward, right?

At one point I did engage 4wd low to lock all 4 wheels, right now the shifter is in neutral and the red knob is fully forward (although there have been times when it didn't fully re-engage in 2wd high until you moved a bit).

[I Leak Oil]

Maybe I'm missing something - still can only get it about 1/4 turn in each direction. I'm not a weak guy but no matter how hard I yank it hits a spot and will not turn.

Stupid question but is the transmission in neutral when you're trying to turn the motor? When you're looking at the motor from the front of the truck it normally turns clockwise fwiw.

[SafeAirOne]

Nick I really want to be wrong about this but I have to ask. When you took off the air cleaner assembly were any of the studs or nuts, that hold the air cleaner assembly to the carb missing?

I was wondering something similar but more disasterous...I don't want to create unnecessary fear, but the 2.5 diesel has a timing BELT (not chain) to time the cam (valves) to the crank (pistons). I'm wondering if the petrol does too.

There is always the possiblility that the pistons are out of time with the valves and are striking the valves as the pistons near the top of their stroke. Being a non-clearance engine, this has always been a danger with the 2.5 diesels, necessitating the religious changing of timing belts at regular intervals.

Again, this would be a worst-case scenario. It is probably something else...

[Nium]

Odd

Maybe I'm missing something - still can only get it about 1/4 turn in each direction. I'm not a weak guy but no matter how hard I yank it hits a spot and will not turn.

Ok that's a little odd. It'll turn over fine by the starter, but with all the spark plugs out of the holes, and the tranny in neutral, you can't turn it by hand? I'm not saying you aren't trying, I'm sure you are. There just shouldn't be any resistance at least not that much. My reasoning being that without the plugs in your not working against the pistons compressing the air/fuel mixture so it should turn really easy, and you'll hear a little pheesht as the air/fuel mixture is blown out the spark plug holes. Engines should have very little resistance to turning because if they didn't then all the more gas would be used to just over come the resistance of the engine.

Nick I really want to be wrong about this but I have to ask. When you took off the air cleaner assembly were any of the studs or nuts, that hold the air cleaner assembly to the carb missing? Were any of the bottom electrodes of the old spark plugs bent over more then any others or nicked or marked up like something had hit them? I am really hoping that some foreign object didn't find it's way down the throat of your carb. On that note whenever the air cleaner is off stuff a clean rag in the top of the carb to prevent any foreign matter from dropping into the combustion chamber via the carb throat.

I only ask because once upon a time I had a FIAT Spyder that had studs on the inside of the air cleaner assembly. One worked itself loose and fell down the carb throat. For an instant the throttle stuck open while driving. I worked the throttle a couple of times with my foot and it came unstuck. Months later I pulled the head, for some reason, and there was the stud stuck to the bottom of the head. I figured hey no big deal removed the stud replaced the rest of them with long screws that went thru the top of the air cleaner assembly and put the engine back together. A few months after that the tiny crack the stud had caused in the intake valve, as it passed into the combustion chamber, finally came to be a big crack and the valve head dropped off and completely shattered the piston head. The piston-less crank rod then went thru the cylinder wall. That engine never ran again.

[NickDawson]

put the new plugs in (call me crazy by according to my feelers they were already gapped correctly) and cranked it for about a minute. It fired once but never caught.

I'll work on the static timing as soon as I find a way to turn the engine... calling it a day.

Thanks for the play-by-play help today

[NickDawson]

Sure you can, take the plugs out and block a wheel and put it in neutral.

Maybe I'm missing something - still can only get it about 1/4 turn in each direction. I'm not a weak guy but no matter how hard I yank it hits a spot and will not turn.

I'll see if I can find 41mm and a 1-11/16" ...

When I pulled the plugs they were damp and smelled of gas. They are also pitch black, does that mean it was running way rich?

I do have a set of 4 new plugs, I hate to complicate the diagnosis by introducing a new variable - should I use the new ones?

[kevkon]

Nick, first off; do you have a proper repair manual? If you don't, I suggest you stop what you are doing and get one. If you do, look carefully at the diagrams and diagnostic proceedures under the relevant sections. A good manual is worth it's weight in gold.
You say you just installed new points, cap, and rotor. Did you compare them closely with the existing ones you repaced? Did you get a new condenser as well? Are you confident all the connections are correct and secure?

[SafeAirOne]

This is very helpful, thanks! only issue is that I can't turn the engine all the way over by hand.

Going on a mission to find an 1-11/16th socket...

Sounds like you have the same crank pulley bolt I have on my 2.5 diesel (there were 3 sizes of bolt heads used). It's a 41mm socket you're looking for, although this site calls for a 42mm.

[Nium]

oops

3) attach a test light to the low tension led at the points and the other end to the "+" side of the battery (I use the battery cause mines in the engine bay close to the dizzy and I'm assuming yours is)

I just realized I made a little mistake in my instructions for static timing .

In step 3) I meant to say you connect the other end of the test light to the points (at the low tension lead connection). Not to connect the test light to the low tension lead wire. Sorry for any confusion. You are looking to use the points as a switch to turn on and off the test light that way you can tell exactly when they open.

[Nium]

Sure you can, take the plugs out and block a wheel and put it in neutral.

[NickDawson]

Make sure the firing order is correct.

This is very helpful, thanks! only issue is that I can't turn the engine all the way over by hand.

Going on a mission to find an 1-11/16th socket...

[Nium]

The engine should be OFF when setting the static timing. Mostly because you're gonna need the dizzy cap off to do it.

I saw a spark b/t the contact points when I manually pulled them apart while the key was in the ignition. How bad is that

Not bad at all. Means there is a connection to ground thru the points for the coil.

I posted my method of static timing just before your last post.

but when I move the pump mechanism I can see it spraying fuel into the bowl (understanding that my terms may be incorrect).

When you depressed the accelerator pump (on the carb) and saw a shot of gas go down the carb I'd take that to mean your getting gas. Concentrate on the spark issue.

Take out #1 spark plug. With it out of the engine set it back in it's wire. With the dizzy all together. Rest the electrode end of the plug against a good ground (clean metal part of the frame or engine) turn the engine over. Did you observe a bright blue spark between the spark plug electrodes? If yes your getting spark. Set the timing. If the timings set and your getting spark and fuel. Pull the choke out to it's max and crank for awhile (about a minute or a little more at a time with a minute or two of rest between attempts).

Setting idle. You aren't gonna be able to set idle till the engine runs.

[NickDawson]

And the rotor button installed too, right? No rotor, no go.

Now you need to statically or stationary set the timing
A spark from a spark plug or from the coil right? Not a spark from in between the contacts of the points?


Cheers

I did remember the rotor button - although not at first, right before I cranked over the engine, it occurred to me :

The engine isn't even making an attempt to fire. How do I set the timing or the idle if it won't turn over? Its like there's no fuel or spark at all.

I saw a spark b/t the contact points when I manually pulled them apart while the key was in the ignition. How bad is that?

_____
Brakes - the stuck bleeder is stuck no more! My front yard looks like the wheel threw up, but after hours of yanking and tugging the lower cylinder came out and I got the bleeder out with a stripped nut tool in my screw gun. Not guessing I'm going to find that screw locally - think I'll replace both wheel cylinders while I'm at it. The top one had a bit of corrosion under the boot. (it also occured to me to scaveng the bleeder from the new 88" cylinder I ordered...which might have done if it were running.

Still unclear on if they master cylinder I installed will work with the 11" wheels up front - I would think so since its a larger dual and replaced the smaller single that was there.

[Nium]

Few more things

Make sure the firing order is correct.

With the 1 cylinder set at Top Dead Center (TDC) and the timing mark on the pulley lined up with the timing pointer. The rotor should point to the 1 cylinder firing position of the dizzy cap. The progression of the rotor around the cap should be...

1-3-4-2 (firing order)

It is possible to have the timing mark lined up and the rotor be pointing at # 4 cylinder firing position so make sure # 1 cylinder is at TDC and not # 4.

My method of static timing...

1) ignition off. Remove dizzy cap (leave plug wires connected to cap)
2) disconnect the low tension lead from the points.
3) attach a test light to the low tension led at the points and the other end to the "+" side of the battery (I use the battery cause mines in the engine bay close to the dizzy and I'm assuming yours is)
4) have the # 1 cylinder set so it's just before lining up the timing marks or just a little before TDC on the power stroke
5) the test light should be on
6) rotate the engine by hand till the points just open. The test light will go off when the points just start to open.
7) If the timing mark lines up when the points just start to open. Good to go. If not...
a) loosen the dizzy hold down clamp/device
b) rotate the the dizzy body till the points just start to open with the timing marks lined up.
c)if the timings good clamp down the dizzy.
d) double check by getting #1 set to just before TDC again. Rotate the engine by hand till the timing marks just line up. Watch the test light as the timing marks line up. The test light should go off just as the timing marks line up. If not repeat previous procedure.

8) Reconnect low tension lead to points.

My method varies a little from TerriAnn's ( that I referd you to on a different post) but I like it better because the ignitions off. Either method of stationary timing should work.